NHS workers do you support school closures.

[Teeninabeanie]

Just that really. Do NHS workers feel that the current situation in hospitals justifies some teaching unions telling members not to work tomorrow?
I reckon one of the main justifications must be to save the NHS from being overwhelmed. Do you feel like this action is necessary to support you in doing your jobs or is it OTT and not going to make any difference to your work?

go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=twitter.com/datagraver/status/1345126498227912713?s=21

This chart shows where it's spreading most.

Young people.

I wonder why? Where might they be hanging out? 🤷‍♀️

And another chart, showing why school closures are probably no longer enough to stop the NHS breaking:

twitter.com/brianklaas/status/1345841780328165376?s=21

Vaccination isn't going to get rolled out fast enough to save us. We need to get case numbers and hospital admissions falling right now.
We'll have significant numbers vaccinated by the end of January but we are still such a long way off being able to vaccinate teachers.

The numbers vaccinated so far are a drop in the ocean. We've only done 10% of even the first priority groups (over 80s) so far in my area. No care homes. Almost no NHS staff except ECV staff.

It's just not happening fast enough yet to make any impact. Cases still rising in this area despite Tier 4 and R still over 1.

@threebeautifulboys Most of my colleagues
are not “complaining” in order to get vaccines. None of the teachers I work with are considering the section 44 in order to push themselves up the vaccination queue. We are considering it to try to reduce mixing and therefore hopefully limit the spread of Covid to family members and the community. We are trying to do what the government should arguably doing.

We hate remote teaching and we hate having to supervise mixed age/ability classes of keyworker and vulnerable children.

We want to be in our own classrooms with our own children.

We want the government to listen to the scientists and take some action.
You saying that we are complaining and need to get on with it is nasty.

@thecatfromjapan

http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=twitter.com/datagraver/status/1345126498227912713?s=21

This chart shows where it's spreading most.

Young people.

I wonder why? Where might they be hanging out? 🤷‍♀️

Am I reading it wrong? Because the orange line (ages 6-17) looks flat. The others are going up.

thecatfromjapan

How dare you bring this thread down with actual data sources, how very dare you!

Can people really not see the difference between Christmas and a 16 day period in February?!?

NHS and fully supportive of teachers efforts to keep everyone safe. However, I think that vulnerable children being in school should be enforced better than it was last time. This would need a joined up effort from health, education and social care.

You're right, Bagamot, that's not the chart I'm looking for.

I'll keep hunting - but the data is out there that the new variant is pushing infections and is being spread primarily in the 0-17 age group.

My apologies.

Yes absolutely with tighter restrictions nationally.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

Vaccination isn't going to get rolled out fast enough to save us. We need to get case numbers and hospital admissions falling right now. We'll have significant numbers vaccinated by the end of January but we are still such a long way off being able to vaccinate teachers.

The numbers vaccinated so far are a drop in the ocean. We've only done 10% of even the first priority groups (over 80s) so far in my area. No care homes. Almost no NHS staff except ECV staff.

It's just not happening fast enough yet to make any impact. Cases still rising in this area despite Tier 4 and R still over 1.

We are doing quite well with vaccines, but many of us are working extra outside of our normal hours to do this.

Unfortunately for many of us, me included, if schools close I will have to stop doing it. Many of us are parents with school aged kids. Will have to just stick to normal days/hours and won’t be available for any extra.

But ... the second and third graphs show that hospital admissions for 0-17 is fastest rising group.

Since we know coronavirus affects young people less severely than older people, this proportional rise suggests that transmission is now concentrated in this age group.

Why are you all so sure that closing schools will dramatically reduce transmission? Schools have been closed for 16 days and rates are going up.

To me that sounds like even more reason to close them. The numbers are this bad WITHOUT millions of school kids in unprotected mass gatherings. Imagine what it will be like with that in the mix?!

Also ... since we know young people are far less likely to have severe reactions to coronavirus, indeed, tend to be asymptomatic, it can be extrapolated from that chart that, not only are young people the new nexus of infection, infection rates are very high.

Basically, things are going north, very quickly.

@testingtesting321 how will you and husband both work if you are nhs workers working full time with young children. You should not send them to grand parents.

Schools are only part of the problem of transmission. The nation is fatigued, people are missing family and friends, people’s mental health has taken a nose dive, the economy is crippled, people are struggling on less pay/redundancy/unstable job market/business closures. So people are taking what they feel are calculated risks-popping to mrs A’s for a cup of tea as they both WFH, letting the kids play in the park with friends kids, staying overnight so families could have Christmas together etc. There is more of this going to happen when the schools shut as informal childcare will increase and people will struggle more so will be more tempted to pop to a friend or relative for support. Shutting the school will help but it would be naive to believe it doesn’t also generate problems which have the potential to increase transmission too especially almost a year into restrictions.

I think it would have been sensible to have decided to have an additional 2 week circuit break added onto the holiday and let people know this well in advance so they had time to prepare as best they can.
Yes it is an absolute pain in the arse for most parents to deal with, but a bit of notice is helpful. This leaving everything until the last minute is stressful for everyone.

Not NHS so can’t comment. I would sport school closure if it helped and if good online provision was provided. The first time we we were caught on the hop So can understand that it was very hit and miss. Secondary aged children received some work not very
Much and majority was never marked. It was unprecedented of course but I would want something more akin to private schools. Not
Completely as my understanding is private school teachers were pushed to their absolute limit. Surely there is a halfway
House as every time school closes that gap widens in state and private education .

@Twintub that is true but the funding gap between state and private per pupil is massive. Now, if the government had given out the laptops they were going to.

Also two teachers here with one home computer I've had to borrow my adult son's laptop and buy a Microsoft package myself to do my remote learning from next week (about £80).

@Monkeytennis97 I absolutely get what you are saying and I agree it’s not the teachers fault and as you say equipment is a huge issue. I. State schools the attainment gap Must be widening at an alarming rate between the have and the have nots. In Scotland at least where I live they have rolled out iPads for the pupils and I assume staff so I wonder if that will help. It’s not just that online teaching must be an absolute nightmare too for staff and that’s before you even get to the broadband issues :-(.

Monkeytennis97 depends on the school, our local private primary has very similar funding per pupil. The difference is home environment and engagement from parents.

@Almostslimjim

Monkeytennis97 depends on the school, our local private primary has very similar funding per pupil. The difference is home environment and engagement from parents.

Yes indeed that too as well as a whole host of other stuff.

Yes I support a move to remote learning with in person provision for key workers.
My hospital currently has more covid patients than it did in April- admissions are not dropping off, they are rising. About 50% of the patients I admitted on my nights last week were either covid positive or suspected to have it. I don’t feel very safe at work in my PPE (surgical mask as non aerosol generating procedures) but doesn’t mean that others should have to face a high risk environment either. Besides, It is not about teachers being any more vulnerable but about reducing community spread. We need a full lockdown. It is looking very bleak to me right now. I have to continue to put my son into nursery as both DH and I work outside the home as key workers but if I could work from home with him home I would. Different stress I know but my colleagues are close to breaking point- we are running out of room and staff. Tier 4 isn’t working- it is miserable and I don’t relish it but a strict full lockdown is needed.

@Moonandstars25 thank you for everything you do ❤️

I fully support teachers doing what is right for them and their families.
I'm an nhs worker, as is my childrens father. We've rearranged our working patterns so that one of us is always at home. Its crap in terms of one working a day while the other works a night at times but we can accommodate the 2 burst bubbles in our childrens school years that we've had so far, and we wouldn't need to take up a keyworker child place.

We're all exhausted, the hospitals and the ambulance service are under immense pressure. Anything that helps to limit the spread now needs to be done.

I've seen so many brilliant ideas about using school facilities/halls etc as vaccination centres, but I just can't see where the staff would come from. If we could shut pretty much everything and vaccinate 24/7 maybe giving training for others to do it, then maybe we can still beat this, but I'm honestly starting to lose hope.

We're not yet through the worst.

I am not NHS staff. I just want to add something else to the discourse. Section 44 is not just about teacher’s H&S working conditions. It is a way to ensure lessons are held remotely for the majority of pupils and minimal people in school.

The new strain of COVID is 70% more transmissible than what we were dealing with a few months ago. Secondary pupils are 7 times more likely to bring COVID home and infect people than any other age group. The schools need to be ‘closed’ so that it is not transmitted from children Into their homesick where it will then spread more quickly and overwhelm the NHS.

Yes, it is partly to keep teachers safe, but mainly to slow down the new strain which spreads faster than before. It will not make people any more ill thanks before, but will spread faster and cause pressure for the NHS and ALL services.