NHS workers do you support school closures.

[Teeninabeanie]

Just that really. Do NHS workers feel that the current situation in hospitals justifies some teaching unions telling members not to work tomorrow?
I reckon one of the main justifications must be to save the NHS from being overwhelmed. Do you feel like this action is necessary to support you in doing your jobs or is it OTT and not going to make any difference to your work?

I think this is a great post OP. I left teaching and don’t work for NHS, so really just a supportive parent.
I don’t want to derail, but just wanted to state that I don’t understand why more of a fuss isn’t being kicked up about the inaccuracy of the lateral flow tests and the move to keep close contacts at school for 7 days. I had hoped the NHS would point this out, as I think this is what will contribute to infections rising.

Errr why does it matter what we think? We are seeing the fall out of what teachers are experiencing.

This isn't nhs v's education.

@Iliketeaagain the unions practically begged the DfE for PPE for teachers and for mask wearing above 12 in classrooms as well as corridors before we went back in September. Totally ignored by DfE and they wrote their guidance saying masks should not be worn in class.

I’m glad to read the support on here from NHS workers.

I think it would help if it was worded as ‘switch to remote learning’ rather than closing schools this time. With it also being made clear that schools remain open to KW and vulnerable students.

No teacher wants to be in this position but we can see the spread and the impact on the communities and NHS as a result.

I work for a very well known coffee shop. We are now busier than ever. We have customers coming over the border from Wales to buy coffee.

I have never know it to be as busy as it is and it's ridiculous. I'm in a tier 4.

I think those working in nhs in frontier COVID wards should have hubs set up for their children.

It's a circular situation.

We need those nhs frontline staff and need to support them.

Whilst supporting them at the same time by shutting all but essential mixing on a minimal basis.

[quote Countdowntonothing]@kitkat1985

The children would need full PPE too. By closing the schools, it's not just protecting teachers but the whole community. The children take the virus home to their family, the parents take the train to work the next day, their colleagues get a different train home to a different area etc. etc.

All tier 4 schools need to move to online. Probably tier 3 too. Not necessarily every single school in the country. [/quote]
Absolutely.

Yes
There are more patients in hospital now than in first peak. ITU capacities are expanded and full in London and parts of the south and getting worse everywhere. We need to lockdown again to bring cases down and mean we can treat everyone who needs it or we will be in very difficult situations. And vaccinate as quickly as possible.

And honestly I find anyone who wants teachers added to the vaccination list (despite their being no evidence of increased risk of death relative to the general population), but doesn't care about those in other (traditionally working class and often ethnic minority) occupations such as taxi drivers who are actually at increased risk being added to the list to be rather distasteful and selfish.

@WhatTiggersDoBest I’m not doing that at all. I think that if my union suggests I don’t go into school tomorrow then I would struggle to know what to do. I work in EYFS in an area of high deprivation. I would be weighing up supporting the union, supporting colleagues in more risky tier 4 areas, standing up for teacher’s rights etc against one of my class being confined to a travel cot with a tablet for another week, one of my children being sat in a high chair in front of the telly for most of the day, a handful of my children not being fed properly, not being warm enough etc. Knowing that I was helping hospitals cope by reducing the numbers of staff, children and families mixing would help my decision.

If NHS workers honestly believed that schools should shut including to their own children I would listen but whilst they continue to believe they should be exempt from the closures it's hard to care what they think

What do you think I’d rather do, play in the park with my son, or cross-cover an ICU nursing shift (as a non-ICU doctor, that is how short-staffed we are, they are already running 1:3 nursing ratios and they can’t even staff that)?

@Monkeytennis97

Reading the support from the NHS workers here makes me feel better about sending in section 44 letter today. Health trumps (f2f) education in times of acute crisis. Thank you to all the NHS staff on here, thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your work.

This. Thank you ❤️

No no no.
We have been at work keeping the country running throughout.
Teachers are also essential and need to keep going to work. Yes it is not 100% safe but that is true for a lot of us.
My young children need school. They "key worker provision" was a complete joke and they are terrified of having to go back to it.

I dont see how a teacher can teach in a bloody ffp3 mask

Teachers wouldn't get FFP3 masks!! Nhs only get them if the patient is on an AGP (intubated/cpap etc)
We just wear the normal blue surgical masks same as everyone else.

Why? NHS staff are key workers and their children will be able to attend school

There is now no before/after school clubs running at my school, so I'm having to start later and use my lunch to pick up.
Luckily mine are old enough to be trusted got a couple hours until I get home, but it's still a massive rush.

@corlan

I think school staff need to be a priority for vaccines too. If we want schools open - and I really do - the staff need protection.

Who would you propose bumping to facilitate this given that school staff will be prioritised in line with their personal risk the same as the rest of us?

I absolutely support teachers right to be safe, I think a short sharp closure with a prescribed end point is needed and during that closure schools get provided with PPE and all teachers get offered vaccination.
My concern is at what point will the schools open again if they close due to teachers using section 44 (would you be happy to return quickly if vaccinated and provided with mask/visor/gloves/apron PPE)? And I have concerns for the long term impact this has on families where one parent (mostly mums) are potentially going to be compromising their ability to work and home educate and it’s going to widen the gap further for those children already living in poverty, for example those who don’t fall under the vulnerable/CP umbrella so won’t get a ‘key worker’ type place but don’t perhaps have access to computer/WiFi/literate parents etc.
I also wonder if other public facing roles may now see workers using section 44 and this could have a huge impact.
Ultimately it needs to be done but There needs to be an exit strategy.

[quote Monkeytennis97]@Iliketeaagain the unions practically begged the DfE for PPE for teachers and for mask wearing above 12 in classrooms as well as corridors before we went back in September. Totally ignored by DfE and they wrote their guidance saying masks should not be worn in class.[/quote]
And that was the time to start saying it wasn't safe and doing section 44 letters. I think doing it now, this way with such short notice, is going to have a backlash towards teachers and the unions. Why did the NEU not do this in September, in a October half term, 2 weeks before Christmas? Instead, they've waited until the weekend before the schools have gone back with no time for anyone to try and sort things either for work place or for schools.

I don't agree there should be a backlash, but you only have to look at the thread and social media pitting nhs staff, supermarket staff and teachers against each other as a race to the bottom of who is most unsafe.

Op are you happy now?
The serving of a section 44 is an individual action, so I'm not sure why teachers would feel pressure to also serve one? And school will remain open to key workers so those teachers can volunteer?

Schools are driving transmission why would any NHS worker want them open to get more customers? Sounds utterly macabre to me.
Having said that... I've been in and out of 2 hospitals recently and in no area... Various treatment rooms, waiting rooms, did I see a single window open.
I'd love to see the NHS lead on the importance of ventilation.

NHS here.

Yes I support the union position - which is that schools should be open to keyworker and vulnerable children and providing remote learning to everyone else. Not that schools should close.

The reason I support this is because the SAGE minutes suggest that the governments own scientific and health advisors strongly support school closure - less to protect kids and teachers and more to protect the entire population. So presumably government is keeping schools open for political game playing. Not keen on that.

@Changechangychange

If NHS workers honestly believed that schools should shut including to their own children I would listen but whilst they continue to believe they should be exempt from the closures it's hard to care what they think

What do you think I’d rather do, play in the park with my son, or cross-cover an ICU nursing shift (as a non-ICU doctor, that is how short-staffed we are, they are already running 1:3 nursing ratios and they can’t even staff that)?

Thank you for all you do ❤️

Like tea.. We had had a natinal lock down.. And there was no idea about this new strain.

@IrisAnon

I think this is a great post OP. I left teaching and don’t work for NHS, so really just a supportive parent. I don’t want to derail, but just wanted to state that I don’t understand why more of a fuss isn’t being kicked up about the inaccuracy of the lateral flow tests and the move to keep close contacts at school for 7 days. I had hoped the NHS would point this out, as I think this is what will contribute to infections rising.

I think the nhs are too busy firefighting their own stuff at the moment. I emailed my MP about the lateral flow tests and kids being tested it instead of isolating. I find it entirely negligent and dangerous and part of the reason I think schools should close is so this ridiculous policy doesn’t have a chance to be put into action. The only thing it will do is put more kids at risk and increase numbers.

@StatisticalSense

I don't really care what NHS workers think in this case because it doesn't effect them. If NHS workers honestly believed that schools should shut including to their own children I would listen but whilst they continue to believe they should be exempt from the closures it's hard to care what they think. The concept of key and non-key workers may have worked in the short term in March but the reality is at this stage that the country cannot afford for anyone whose job is able to safely open and for whom there is sufficient work to not go to work.

Hands up who cares what @StatisticalSense thinks everyone.

No but I think teachers should be allowed ppe and schools given funds for protective measures. Also move up vaccination priority list.
I think the teaching profession will be viewed less favourably by quite a few people for this.

I was on the fence about many of it although supported primary and secondary teachers right to safe work places.

Then I saw sages own report today saying 12-16yo are 7 times more likely to be index case in households and under 12's 3 times.

Our nhs staff also deserve protection in their workplaces and that is to keep numbers as low as possible in the community and those figures don't support that.