If Schools are safe but we need tighter restrictions

[Jenasaurus]

What can they add to Tier 4 to make is safer if Schools closing isnt on the table?

Maybe if the DC sleep at the school and dont go out, stay in their bubble with their teachers etc. (Not serious) but I cant think of anything else that would have the same reduction in numbers as closing schools for a period until vaccinations have been rolled out.

Well most workplaces are still open.

Factories and such like. No one ever mentions these.

Sometimes I feel as though mumsnet is a middle class bubble of office home workers and teachers. I know lots of people working in crowded workplaces.

Went to pick up a takeaway last week, there were no fewer than 15 delivery drivers congregated inside the restaurant. Tier 4.

Restaurant may as well have been open for what they were doing.

Further measures from the 1st lockdown that we don’t have yet:

• Blanket school & nursery closure
• Workplaces completely closed down - work from home or not at all
• Being allowed out once a day for up to an hour of exercise

Other stricter measures that other countries have used but the UK hasn’t:

• Evening curfew e.g everyone in by 8/9/10
• No alcohol sales
• Whereabouts forms to leave the house
• Closed borders

As many posters on here have said on other threads, I don’t think any of the above would actually be necessary if the restrictions we already have in place were being properly enforced.

There would be riots with no alcohol sales!

hour of exercise

This was never a thing.

@Jenasaurus

What can they add to Tier 4 to make is safer if Schools closing isnt on the table?

Posted this on other thread asking the same question.

I live in tier 4 at the moment most shops are open for click and collect, numerous coffee shops and restaurants are doing take out, the craft beer shop is doing take out and huge groups of people (ages 30’s-50’s) are having a jolly nice time in the park in big groups with all their take out!! Very few teens to be seen anywhere.

So I would say adults should start follows the rules before insisting on school closures.

@Bluewavescrashing

There would be riots with no alcohol sales!

Why on earth would this cause riots? If it does maybe people need to consider their drinking habits.

Further measures from the 1st lockdown that we don’t have yet:

- Blanket school & nursery closure
- Workplaces completely closed down - work from home or not at all
- Being allowed out once a day for up to an hour of exercise

There were never exercise limits in the first lockdown, despite what MPs (Michael gove) may have said.
I’m pretty sure they also didn’t close all workplaces where you couldn’t wfh. Some people misunderstood, or closed anyway, but construction etc could always continue.

If Schools are safe but we need tighter restrictions

The premise in your title is incorrect. Schools aren't safe. There isn't an alternative to closing them if you want to reduce deaths.

@toptreeroots1

hour of exercise

This was never a thing.

So many people thought it was though. My midwife suggested I set an alarm for 30 mins so I'd know when to turn round and come home when I went on a walk. I laughed as I thought she was joking. She was serious and said it's what she did.

Stronger penalties and enforcing of the existing law would also help.
Many people ignore it ... because they know they will get away with it.

The problem with the message 'schools are safe' is it is being used in 3 different ways by groups of people:

1. Some people saying 'schools are safe' believe this means that miraculously children don't catch or spread a respiratory virus. This is clearly ridiculous. But would be wonderful if it were true, do this is what people want it to mean.

1. Other people saying 'schools are safe' mean that thankfully for the vast majority of children covid won't cause them long term harm. Unfortunately this doesn't help at all with community spread and they will still pass it on to others who will come to harm.

1. Boris Johnson said schools are safe and then clarified that the problem wasn't the schools but the household mixing in schools. The buildings themselves don't spread covid, the problem is the occupants. Boris clearly has no idea about what happens in schools if he expects a school to be open to all but to somehow have no household mixing to make it safe...

So I would say adults should start follows the rules before insisting on school closures.

This. Exactly this. Honestly, I'm stunned anyone thinks depriving kids of their education comes before adults following the rules.

@louisejxxx Please don't perpetuate lies. There was never a legal restriction on amount of exercise to be taken - and no, Gove "suggesting" it in a TV interview was not and is not the law.

Close the borders.
Actually have proper quarantine for new arrivals.

Be tougher on the rules. Instead of finding the organisers of parties 10k fine every attendee and make it an attachment of earnings so that they have to pay. This is one example of many I could give to ensure rules are being adhered to, much stricter enforcement is needed.

@Whataloadofshit

Well most workplaces are still open.

Factories and such like. No one ever mentions these.

Sometimes I feel as though mumsnet is a middle class bubble of office home workers and teachers. I know lots of people working in crowded workplaces.

Went to pick up a takeaway last week, there were no fewer than 15 delivery drivers congregated inside the restaurant. Tier 4.

Restaurant may as well have been open for what they were doing.

Whilst I agree in parts with the sentiment of what you're saying those people shouldn't be expected to work in crowded factories as they should be made covid secure and people shouldn't be crowded in restaurants waiting to deliver.

If people didn't do this rates may drop quicker and 30 school children in a room for 6 hours would become less of a risk?

workplaces were never forced to close

they could open if covid secure which in march many weren't

many opened by april once procedures in place

in new march style lockdown all places could now be open so it would never be same

@RedskyAtnight

Stronger penalties and enforcing of the existing law would also help. Many people ignore it ... because they know they will get away with it.

Agree

@nevereverplease

Be tougher on the rules. Instead of finding the organisers of parties 10k fine every attendee and make it an attachment of earnings so that they have to pay. This is one example of many I could give to ensure rules are being adhered to, much stricter enforcement is needed.

Attachment of earnings is an amazing idea.

I've always said we ought to do this by law for child maintenance.

Went to pick up a takeaway last week, there were no fewer than 15 delivery drivers congregated inside the restaurant. Tier 4.

That was the drivers' choice. IT was not mandatory for them to be in a confined space for hours with each others. So not a real comparison.

I work in a school and have primary aged children and do not want schools to shut.
What I want is to feel safe and that can only happen if people follow the rules. If everyone did this then schools would be ok to be open. Too many families are mixing with lots of different families and that's the problem.

[quote Rosehip10]@louisejxxx Please don't perpetuate lies. There was never a legal restriction on amount of exercise to be taken - and no, Gove "suggesting" it in a TV interview was not and is not the law.[/quote]
My apologies - those are what I was under the impression the rules were, it was not my intention to post incorrect information so there’s no need to be snippy and accusing.

Food shops only so people don't use shopping for a day out.
In the November lockdown it was a bit of a farce, local art and craft shop sold sandwiches to claim themselves as essential.
Someone mentioned a whereabouts forms to leave the house. They did this in Spain and Italy I believe. This could never be enforced here.

All the measures we have would work better if enforced but there is not the political will.

I think support bubbles could be vulnerable. They are important in lots of circumstances but I know plenty of people that are exploiting them a bit especially the under one bubble.

Lots of trades are still continuing, lots of people are still going into offices. Lots of retailers that weren’t open first time round have found a way to open.

I’m not saying I want these things to go but there are still lots of things that could be tightened as well as curfews etc.