How many teachers will be handing in the section 44 letter tomorrow and not going in?

[SoscaredforJan]

My DSis is scared to go to work tomorrow in a private primary school in Tier 3 but lowish numbers. She is not ECV but has got chemo damaged lungs so it petrified of catching Covid.

She desperately wants to follow union advice and not go in tomorrow but she’s worried that most teachers will be in as normal, she will have a black Mark against her and will be quietly pushed out.

Are there many teachers on here planning not to go in tomorrow? What do you think will happen tomorrow?

@manicinsomniac membership is open to teachers, support staff, lecturers and anyone that works in education. It is an amalgamation of the NUT and ATL. ATL were not known as being militant at all.

I don't have the exact membership numbers to hand, but it's between 450,000 and 500,000

@Barbie222

Imagine if a group of nurses decided they were too at risk? Would that be acceptable? Are you thinking of the time when nurses threatened to use the exact same piece of legislation, in March, as they weren't being supplied with PPE? That's what we were all clapping for, remember? 🤦‍♀️

No, you're right. There we go problem solved. All teachers back to work tomorrow and we will clap for you every Tuesday for the next 6 weeks 🙄

[quote netflixandmixedgrill]@2020out

I'm certainly not stating they should go in just because everyone else is. The bottom line is that it is better for children to be at school than at home and that teachers seem to constantly post and argue with their unions that they should receive special treatment I.e vaccines first. It's diabolical.
The only reason it's getting such a hit on MN is the majority of users have children that go to school, and their understanding of "key workers" is NHS, care homes and teachers. When in reality there as masses of other people out there keeping the country going which are NOT mentioned in the news everyday and nor are their battling up the queue to get a vaccine first.

I pity everyone who has to work in public facing roles at the moment, it's not fair, it's not nice and it's not safe. But that is our job.
I go back to my first question, what would happen if prison officers refused to go into work?
There are 90,000 prisoners that are incarcerated 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. They are at a much higher rate of becoming seriously ill and dying. Including the staff. But there is no outcry and refusal to attend work in the prison service is there? No they accept its shit, but accept that their job is needed and get on with it. That's the position we're in and I expect teachers to behave the same.

[/quote]
90,000 prisoners is less than 5,000,000 school pupils and staff.

There have been some horrible outbreaks within prisons and much more should have been done to prevent them. I don't know what would happen if prison officers were to go on strike because I don't know enough about their job.

I do know enough about schools. While schools were shut, cases reduced significantly. In the term they've been open, they've increased. I'm not arguing that this proves schools caused the increase, but it is fairly likely that they contributed significantly.

The section 44 action is ostensibly about the safety of teachers, but it is really about the safety of the whole community. Covid loves a crowd and nowhere is it legal to gather in a crowd of 30 in a small room except in schools.

@FancySomeChips

It’s not just about sending the letter for you, it’s bigger than that. It’s for your pupils,

I've heard it all now...you are doing it for your pupils. Wow I bet that's the first time ever you have done it for the pupils. Dredging up the sympathy vote from parents now?

[quote Bramblespoint]@Confusedlady246 do you genuinely think this? I'm shocked that anyone can be so uninformed!

Teachers are one of the only professions where there is no social distancing or PPE.

Does your job involve you being inside, close to 30 children (who incidentally are more likely to be asymptomatic) with no PPE? Thought not.

Most teachers have a very vocational outlook to their job and regularly go above and beyond for children in their care but asking them to risk their health for some is a step too far [/quote]
No, my job involves working in a residential home with 38 elderly residents with multiple care needs in almost constant close contact for a quarter of what teachers get paid.

Again, sheer laziness. I'm truly appalled by the entitlement on this thread.

@Blubellsarebells

Surely the point of being in a union is safety in numbers. If all of you send the letter, the management cant bully all of you. Everyone who doesnt follow union advice is making it harder for those that do. What is the point of being in a union if you dont follow the advice and use it to protect your rights and your colleagues rights?

Of course they can. Primary schools are frequently run as mini-dictatorships, and older, expensive teachers have already found themselves managed out of positions and jobs. If you put your head above the parapet and adopt a position the SLT disapproves of, chances are it will be lopped off. Teaching unions have been fairly ineffectual over the last 20+ years. Performance Management targets, unrealistic expectations, informal competency proceedings...I’ve seen it happen over and over again. So any teacher sending in the letter is courageous, because the backlash and retaliation is likely to be fierce.

I'm actually sickened by the pure laziness of teachers. It's absolutely awful.

Ok now that WILL get a rise out of me. I am not lazy. My colleagues are not lazy. If you think it's such a cushy job, come and do it yourself and find out how far from your imagination the reality is.

netflixandmixedgrill

Two things

one
can you now see why posting end of is so fucking stupid?

Two
Are you stating that the main risk to prison staff is getting covid from the prisoners?
Surely the main risk is the prison staff bringing covid into the prison.

[quote Confusedlady246]@SeldomFollowedIt really? Can you explain why that is? Please explain to me, as others have asked already, why Prison officers, doctors, nurses, police officers, social workers etc must continue to go to work each day and teachers do not? Are you suggesting you have more chance of catching covid than any of the above? I'm a carer for the elderly, do you think you are at more risk than me?

It is well known how poorly schools and teachers performed during the last lockdown. They were effectively furloughed on full pay, which again means they have special treatment in comparison to the rest of the population.

I have never met a profession as entitled as teachers. I really hope those who refuse to work end up losing their jobs.[/quote]
Your post made me angry, but you made up for it because your final statement is funny. You do know that if all of those teachers lose their jobs, many schools will be closed for a very long time, or will be working with significant numbers of unqualified teachers for a while.

Anyway, irrelevant because no one is refusing to work.

Teachers are one of the only professions where there is no social distancing or PPE.

Then take it up with your head. There are very strict social distancing rules in our school and the teachers have PPE. We have no cases in teachers.

Your school is at fault for not protecting you.

I resigned because I’ve had enough.

@ZeldaPrincessOfHyrule

I'm actually sickened by the pure laziness of teachers. It's absolutely awful.

Ok now that WILL get a rise out of me. I am not lazy. My colleagues are not lazy. If you think it's such a cushy job, come and do it yourself and find out how far from your imagination the reality is.

Go to work then like the rest of the population 🤷🏼‍♀️

Confusedlady246
Again, sheer laziness. I'm truly appalled by the entitlement on this thread.

How very dare of teachers to want ot work in the safest environment possibly for the benefit of the staff, pupils, their families and the wider community.

And knowing quite a few people that work in care homes they all get tested weekly for covid. That doesn't happen in schools.

NEU or former NUT was always a bit fool hardy. Always wanting to strike or be ‘militant’
How did a one day strike change anything?
How is the section 44 going to change anything?
It’s a pandemic.
I’ll be at work tomorrow

@TwentyTwentyOne

Teachers are one of the only professions where there is no social distancing or PPE.

Then take it up with your head. There are very strict social distancing rules in our school and the teachers have PPE. We have no cases in teachers.

Your school is at fault for not protecting you.

How do you have very strict social distancing rules? Enormous classrooms? Like most schools, my kids are sitting two to a desk all day.

Go to work then like the rest of the population
Huh?

@manicinsomniac membership is open to teachers, support staff, lecturers and anyone that works in education. It is an amalgamation of the NUT and ATL. ATL were not known as being militant at all

Got it, thanks.
No, ATL definitely weren't were they! I remember, as a very young teacher, telling my HoD that I wasn't in a union because I don't agree with striking and was worried I would have to obey a union if they ever went on strike. Along with telling me I was crazy, he told to join ATL because they almost never strike or do anything particularly controversial. Interesting combination with NUT!

@SeldomFollowedIt
Can you explain why that is? Please explain to me, as others have asked already, why Prison officers, doctors, nurses, police officers, social workers etc must continue to go to work each day and teachers do not

Like any occupation, they too can evoke Section 44 regarding unsafe working conditions. Clearly at the minute they don't have grounds to do this ....showing how unsafe schools really are.

@FrippEnos

netflixandmixedgrill

Two things

one
can you now see why posting end of is so fucking stupid?

Two
Are you stating that the main risk to prison staff is getting covid from the prisoners?
Surely the main risk is the prison staff bringing covid into the prison.

Funnily enough I am concerned about the health and well-being of BOTH the prisoners and the staff. I'm not small minded enough to only care about my own profession.... if only teachers thought the same.

[quote netflixandmixedgrill]@2020out

You've answered my question exactly. You don't know what would happen if they refused to go into work as you don't know enough about it. Neither does the majority of the general population and that is the problem.

I'm not asking everyone to suddenly be aware of all public services - the point I'm making is that there are plenty of other people who have worked THIS ENTIRE PANDEMIC and not had 9 months at home. Who are going to work tomorrow and putting themselves at risk because it is their job.

Teachers should do the same and the small mindedness of people of this thread, no doubt teachers. Is disgusting.

It's your job to go to work - you're not the only ones at risk. Go to work or resign. [/quote]
You're failing to respond to my point about the wider dangers of schools being open.

If I thought that knowing about the inner workings of prisons would change anything, I would learn. But it won't, will it? Because I'm a teacher not a politician.

I've fucking had covid. I'm going to work tomorrow (I'm in London, kids won't be on because the government says it's not safe for them).

Please explain to me, as others have asked already, why Prison officers, doctors, nurses, police officers, social workers etc must continue to go to work each day and teachers do not?

Because they have been allowed to make their workplaces safer. The nurses now have enough PPE and they distance their patients. Doctors triage on the phone. Prisoners are not able to gather in groups. Police officers do an amazing job, under fantastic circumstances. But they are still not exposed to the risks of mixing with 30 people in a small space, and unfortunately the virus doesn't care how worthy your job is, it just cares whether or not it has a lot of hosts it can pass between.

Schools as they were make the community unsafe because they magnify the risks that are already there. If there are few cases, they are relatively safe. But when there are lots of cases, they make the community rates rise astronomically.They make individuals in them unsafe, when they don't need to. There are plenty of things that could be done to improve school safety, but they weren't done. Now even the Government's own advisers say that it's time to reduce the community transmission and there are no more levers to pull apart from shutting schools to most children. But the government won't act on the advice, so things are going to get a lot worse for individual communities, and the whole nation in the end. And because of this, the unions believe the Government have a legal case to answer.

Now you don't need to be confused any more!

[quote ByersRd]@SeldomFollowedIt
Can you explain why that is? Please explain to me, as others have asked already, why Prison officers, doctors, nurses, police officers, social workers etc must continue to go to work each day and teachers do not

Like any occupation, they too can evoke Section 44 regarding unsafe working conditions. Clearly at the minute they don't have grounds to do this ....showing how unsafe schools really are.[/quote]
You truly and honestly believe teachers are more at risk than doctors and nurses? Do you really believe that?

@CallmeAngelina

"You're showing your ignorance, here. This is NOT a strike, but a section 44 on Health and Safety grounds."

In our school they are getting 2 days to get it out of their system and after that will be treated as being on strike and pay docked. Is the usual NEU trying to justify their existence

I haven't seen anything from the shop workers union about their members handing in section 44 notices....oh probably because they would get laughed at

Confused, I am. Perhaps that's why you're confused?