How many teachers will be handing in the section 44 letter tomorrow and not going in?

[SoscaredforJan]

My DSis is scared to go to work tomorrow in a private primary school in Tier 3 but lowish numbers. She is not ECV but has got chemo damaged lungs so it petrified of catching Covid.

She desperately wants to follow union advice and not go in tomorrow but she’s worried that most teachers will be in as normal, she will have a black Mark against her and will be quietly pushed out.

Are there many teachers on here planning not to go in tomorrow? What do you think will happen tomorrow?

@netflixandmixedgrill

What would happen if every single prison officer or prison staff member decided to not go to work tomorrow as they personally don't feel safe?

It's selfish of teachers to keep stating they are the only "key workers" being made to go into work when covid is in such high numbers. There are 10's of other professions, including the prison service, probation, police, SOCIAL WORKERS, who are still working because we have to.

Teachers should be in work too, end of conversation.

"End of conversation "

Motherforker I don't understand that. There are only 500,000 teachers in the UK. How can the NEU have that many members? Are teachers allowed to be in more than one union? Are Unions open to teachers overseas?

They do have the reputation as the militant Union, I'm sure. I've heard it said over and over - in real life, in the media and, I think, on here. I was warned off it as an NQT when it was the NUT and that was a very long time ago.

@LowlandLucky

My Best friend is a nurse, she has been on a COVID ward for since May, Her Husband dropped down dead in front of her one day, he hadn't been ill so she was shocked to the core. The NHS were so kind and let her have 11 days off. Her elderly Mother was rushed into I.C.U with COVID, my friend wasn't allowed leave to go and see her. My dear friend is on anti depressants, she can't sleep, she is still in shock over her DHs death, She misses her Mum, she is petrified of catching COVID and she has nightmares about the awful painful deaths of her patients but she will still go to work tomorrow for a 12 hour shift and she will go the next and the next and the next. She doesn't have the luxury of saying i don't want to. She would never forgive herself for not doing her job.

With the utmost respect to your friend, this is not a race to the bottom. No teacher is expecting not to do their job. They are explaining that the vast majority of their job can be done from home to a good enough standard for it to be deemed the best course of action for everyone. It's about balance. We stop the spread, we protect everyone.

This is not about a bunch of teachers being lazy or afraid or work shy.

@FrippEnos

Hearwego I don’t really understand why teachers should be any more protected than other workers?

When teachers have the same protections as other workers it might be a valid question.

But teachers have been given the same protections as other workers they just differ because the risk mitigations carried out are relevant to the specific job and location. A supermarket building and a school building are completely different. The way in which a supermarket and a school are used are completely different so it is unrealistic to expect the risk mitigations being put in place to be the same.

The measures put in place in supermarkets have been the one-way systems, queuing to get in, limited numbers in the building, one person per household, face masks, perspex screens, hand sanitiser on way in.

In schools the measures put in place have been staggered start/end times, parents wearing face masks at drop off/collection, increased handwashing and cleaning, class bubbles, separate playtimes and lunches, limited movement around schools but wearing masks when doing so, desks all facing the same way, 2m where possible.

The measures are in no way comparable to each other and may be more effective in one than the other but its wrong to say that teachers are the only profession expected to work without any health and safety mitigations. Just because you can't be afforded the same protection as others due to the nature of the job and location it is carried out in doesn't mean that your health and safety needs haven't been considered or attempted to be mitigated. A school can't and never will function in the same way as a supermarket or a factory or a hospital or a prison therefore neither can the health and safety measures.

There’s a huge difference in safeguarding risk of somebody teaching live in an environment with limited access to others, a classroom approved by the headteacher, colleagues passing. There’s a huge difference in control compared to somebodies own home. Also your employer has a responsibility that your home environment is safe for you, so they would need to asses that and provide any necessary equipment/ modification. Huge difference. Many parents are working and not able to monitor what is being broadcast so the school risk assessment may say they will control the environment being used to broadcast. This risk assessment may be different for teenagers and young children. If you’re able to drive or walk to schools and can then follow social distancing and have your own classroom I honestly can’t see that you have grounds to complain on H&S grounds in the way that the unions are recommended.

I was a teacher, and I wasn't in a union

I'm sorry but I don't believe that you were a teacher. Teachers unions provide the legal back up insurance that teachers need. It's almost a requirement.

If we go in, if we enable schools to stay open, we are making things far, far worse than they need to be.

Students should not be mixing in schools right now. It is the wrong thing to be happening.

Teachers should not be put in the position where they have to make this call: Go to work and be dutiful, but by doing so, be responsible for tens of thousands of additional deaths. Don't go to work, be seen as lazy, but actually be doing just as much work but in a way that saves lives.

The moral thing to do is to work from home, but it is so ingrained in us to go in to work, that we will find it very hard to do the brave and right thing.

I am NASUWT, secondary, low case area. I will be going in to work tomorrow.

I feel terrible about this.

If teachers walk out, I’d honestly rather they did not set online work, because it’s ineffective and it gives us working parents something else to worry about.

To suggest it’s an education for our children is insulting.

And then, if not setting online work, perhaps then they could volunteer to staff hospitals or vaccination centres or whatever.

Appreciate key worker and vulnerable kids would be in school, but it doesn’t take a full complement of staff to watch them.

I should have been delivering training at work this month, however it’s impossible to do it effectively on teams, so I’m sacking it off (rather than pretending I’m still doing it) and I’ve volunteered in the vaccination programme as well as volunteering to help school with testing.

@manicinsomniac

Motherforker I don't understand that. There are only 500,000 teachers in the UK. How can the NEU have that many members? Are teachers allowed to be in more than one union? Are Unions open to teachers overseas?

They do have the reputation as the militant Union, I'm sure. I've heard it said over and over - in real life, in the media and, I think, on here. I was warned off it as an NQT when it was the NUT and that was a very long time ago.

The NEU is for teachers, lecturers, support staff and leaders.

@PanPeter

Thank you everyone for your kind words. I just don’t want to lose my job, I love what I do and enjoy being with the children so so much! I worry that if I’m off sick they’ll get rid of me after mat leave. I’m going to speak to them tomorrow and discuss options going forward.

In writing please @panpeter and copy in your union. Take a colleague and take notes in any meetings. If all else fails go off sick. You and your baby are more important.

They might require or prefer it. If they can't demonstrate that their premises are safe and covid compliant the employee is perfectly entitled to invoke a44 and work remotely and/or with reduced numbers of pupils

Of course they are. But i don't think a school would find it very difficult to demonstrate that an empty classroom is safe and covid compliant. Or that it would be dangerous to go to the loo or make a cup of tea occasionally.

@SoscaredforJan

It’s not looking good then judging by this thread Looks like most will be towing the government line.

I imagine loads will hand in the letters, there will be some dep of education bots on here. If the union says it’s not safe, teachers will go with that, the union is there to protect their rights. Nobody knows when they might need their union. It’s in every teachers interests to act with the union. 400 000 were on the zoom meeting - that’s some support! Have faith! Even Keir is starting to find a voice!

@CountessFrog

If teachers walk out, I’d honestly rather they did not set online work, because it’s ineffective and it gives us working parents something else to worry about.

To suggest it’s an education for our children is insulting.

And then, if not setting online work, perhaps then they could volunteer to staff hospitals or vaccination centres or whatever.

Appreciate key worker and vulnerable kids would be in school, but it doesn’t take a full complement of staff to watch them.

I should have been delivering training at work this month, however it’s impossible to do it effectively on teams, so I’m sacking it off (rather than pretending I’m still doing it) and I’ve volunteered in the vaccination programme as well as volunteering to help school with testing.

don't buy this one bit

@EnemyOfEducationNo1

I was a teacher, and I wasn't in a union

I'm sorry but I don't believe that you were a teacher. Teachers unions provide the legal back up insurance that teachers need. It's almost a requirement.

The crucial word there, @EnemyOfEducationNo1, is "almost".

@2020out

I'm certainly not stating they should go in just because everyone else is. The bottom line is that it is better for children to be at school than at home and that teachers seem to constantly post and argue with their unions that they should receive special treatment I.e vaccines first. It's diabolical.
The only reason it's getting such a hit on MN is the majority of users have children that go to school, and their understanding of "key workers" is NHS, care homes and teachers. When in reality there as masses of other people out there keeping the country going which are NOT mentioned in the news everyday and nor are their battling up the queue to get a vaccine first.

I pity everyone who has to work in public facing roles at the moment, it's not fair, it's not nice and it's not safe. But that is our job.
I go back to my first question, what would happen if prison officers refused to go into work?
There are 90,000 prisoners that are incarcerated 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. They are at a much higher rate of becoming seriously ill and dying. Including the staff. But there is no outcry and refusal to attend work in the prison service is there? No they accept its shit, but accept that their job is needed and get on with it. That's the position we're in and I expect teachers to behave the same.

Ah, thank you AaronPurr - I thought lecturers and support staff had their own unions. That makes sense. I think NASUWT is just teachers.

I will be going in. I’m a ta in a private school and have no illusions left at all that I am in any way ‘safe’. I’m not. I wasn’t last term either.
If the school shuts I’d be looking after keyworker children anyway. But when this is over I will be changing careers.

Comefromawa

I work in a client facing role in a place where 000's of people traipse through, touching stuff, every day.

At my DCs school all the teachers wear masks between lessons and visors during lessons and have gallons of hand gel. Not one teacher at my school or within its group has caught COVID and we are in Tier 4. But then they went back mid Sept, had a week off in Oct and then have been off since the end of the first week in Dec. Compare that to my job with no time off this year due to short staffing and demand. They are not at more risk than me.

At the beginning of the pandemic many of my DC's teachers acted appallingly. One even told us they hoped they'd be locked down until next year they were enjoying lockdown so much and told my DS in March they weren't sending any more form that school year. It's only after the parents refused the next terms fee invoice did they do something about it.

I've already decided that if my DC's teachers go on strike I am resigning my job. If others like me do likewise then your DC having a "subpar" education will be the least of your problems.

Think about it. You've been off most of last year and are still complaining. It's absolutely infuriating.

If teachers strike I hope all other key workers do too. I'll happily join them.

@Confusedlady246

I’ve never seen a more appropriate username on mumsnet.

Imagine if a group of nurses decided they were too at risk? Would that be acceptable?
Are you thinking of the time when nurses threatened to use the exact same piece of legislation, in March, as they weren't being supplied with PPE? That's what we were all clapping for, remember? 🤦‍♀️

@Confusedlady246 do you genuinely think this? I'm shocked that anyone can be so uninformed!

Teachers are one of the only professions where there is no social distancing or PPE.

Does your job involve you being inside, close to 30 children (who incidentally are more likely to be asymptomatic) with no PPE? Thought not.

Most teachers have a very vocational outlook to their job and regularly go above and beyond for children in their care but asking them to risk their health for some is a step too far

Laziness?! Gosh people really do do selective reading don't they 🙄

I will be going in. We wear shields and masks and have been since october. If you work in a supermarket or a care home you can't just decide not to go to work. I completely get where the unions are coming from but I do think they are way too militant. I don't think schools will be open past wednesday anyway and I know very few people who are actually sending their children in!!! I have signed the petition though asking for school staff to be vaccinated as a priority.