If only the unions could start demanding 2 million vaccinations a week

[notevenat20]

There is a lot of chat here about opening or closing schools. But really it's almost irrelevant. See for example this LSHTM modelling. All that matters in terms of saving lives is the rate we vaccinate at and that isn't fast enough currently. We should save all our energy to lobby/scream at the govt to speed this up.

I don’t think the bottleneck is willingness, or even logistics, it’s speed of manufacture.

And unlike Pfizer jab, the AZ/Oxford one is part of Covax

I don’t think the bottleneck is willingness, or even logistics, it’s speed of manufacture

I am really frustrated it wasn't all ready to go the day it was approved. Also, there are a number of bureacratic hurdles the govt could get rid of to scale up the delivery.

I am talking about the Oxford vaccine.

Also, there are a number of bureacratic hurdles the govt could get rid of to scale up the delivery.

Like what?

Unions can demand what they want, it doesn't matter because they are ignored.

There have been various plans proposed jointly about the details of how to keep schools as open as possible. Really it's unprecedented to have the major unions, the private schools, the LEAs and the big commercial academy chains all working together but Gavin Williamson won't engage with any of them, so it doesn't matter.

Sooner or later we will get up to 2M does a week because the NHS has done quite well at working around the blockages.

Sadly it will take longer with no co-ordination from the centre but it's not going to change after 9 months. The UK will remain a semi-failed state but we'll get by because our public services are still limping on.

Like what?.

The vast about of paperwork and training that vaccinators have to go through for example.

The UK is one of the best in the world at getting people vaccinated at the moment.
Someone posted an interesting article on the good news thread yesterday from the perspective of Germany. They’re are not doing so well and neither are France.

@notevenat20

Like what?.

The vast about of paperwork and training that vaccinators have to go through for example.

Some of it does seems a bit OTT, but I don’t think it’s currently slowing down the national vaccine rollout. Is it?

The UK is one of the best in the world at getting people vaccinated at the moment.

Yes. We are a long long way behind Israel and also far behind Bahrain however. We could be much faster.

Some of it does seems a bit OTT, but I don’t think it’s currently slowing down the national vaccine rollout. Is it?

To be honest I don't understand why the Oxford vaccine wasn't ready to go a week ago or even why it wasn't being delivered yesterday when we could see the boxes on TV.

I'm actually listening tio an expert on the radio now explaining the proiblems

Listen back to radio 5 and hear someone who works in the field explain it.

There's a shortage of glass vials in which to place the vaccine, that's really holding things up.

inews.co.uk/news/health/boris-johnson-normality-easter-hit-vial-supply-issues-vaccine-roll-out-814248

There's a shortage of glass vials in which to place the vaccine, that's really holding things up.

Argh! They just have known they would need these since, well, March?

So a world wide shortage of glass vials will be the next scandal.

It was approved on the 30th and will be rolled out on the 4th. There was a grand total of one working day inbetween the two.

Rolling out on the 31st would have meant keeping the staff to do so on standby, over the christmas period, or cancelling their leave with no notice, again over the christmas period. With a workforce that is already on it's knees. Remember getting it out means transporting it, working within protocols which weren't released til the 30th, and contacting patients and getting them booked in. None of these can be done instantly.

Before anyone says, "use the military", the military were fairly busy in Dover. Again, with no notice. And, again, have families.

If there had been a three week delay between approval and roll out I would agree. But 5 days, two of which were weekend, and one a bank holiday, doesn't strike me as wildly unreasonable.

@notevenat20

Some of it does seems a bit OTT, but I don’t think it’s currently slowing down the national vaccine rollout. Is it?

To be honest I don't understand why the Oxford vaccine wasn't ready to go a week ago or even why it wasn't being delivered yesterday when we could see the boxes on TV.

Maybe you don't understand the intricacies of the healthcare system in this country.

I am no fan of the government at all, but actually totally disagree with your criticism. They approved the vaccines before any other country and began vaccinating almost immediately. They have a limited number of vaccinations they can realistically get done.

I do think the schools should be closed, especially in the SE and especially Tier 4. We are in an area not far from London, we are Tier 4, but they have decided primary schools should open as planned here. If the unions manage to keep them closed, they will be doing me a huge favour. I'm not a teacher btw, but a parent of a primary aged dc.

Slightly off topic, but the table highlights an interesting point about the anticipated effect of closing schools being to increase the peak figures by delaying the third wave. Not that it follows that this is, in itself, an argument for not closing schools but it does highlight the complexity of deciding which variable to alter and when.

It was approved on the 30th and will be rolled out on the 4th. There was a grand total of one working day inbetween the two.

I guess I think that when there is a national crisis some people have to work on the weekend. If the real problem is a shortage of glass vials then that is very frustrating as they would have known since the start of the trials months ago that they would be needed.

Slightly off topic, but the table highlights an interesting point about the anticipated effect of closing schools being to increase the peak figures by delaying the third wave. Not that it follows that this is, in itself, an argument for not closing schools but it does highlight the complexity of deciding which variable to alter and when.

Yes that is exactly right. These decisions are really hard but the only way out is to vaccinate as fast as the nation is able.

They are starting vaccinations with the Astra on Monday. I do think that they are doing well on approving and rolling the vaccines indeed.
If we are keeping schools open (and let's face it, we need to, for the children education, wellbeing, and their parents being able to work and keep a roof over their heads), we should vaccinate in schools. Specially with the new variant, which they recognise spreads better in young people than previous.
But how do you feel about children not having vaccines? This is worrying me very much. As this virus mutates, I am wary of leaving children unvaccinated, and then at a later date we find out that they start having similar issues with covid 19 (long covid, need hospitalisation, problems breathing).
At least, there is a plan to test school children (hopefully teachers too). So you can use that tool to make schools safer for those who are coming back this week.

In conclusion, yes I agree vaccination is going to be the turning point in this pandemic. I am of the thought that children and teachers should have been prioritized for the vaccines. And I think the quick tests in school are going to help greatly till we get everyone vaccinated.

Boris is on the Marr show now, being quizzed over how many Oxford vaccine doses are available now for vaccinating. As usual he's dodging the question. He thinks we can have 'tens of millions' of doses in the next few months.

'We could not have reasonably foreseen a new variant of the virus'... says Boris. Really? So all those scientific advisors never thought that may happen??

There are shortages of vaccine in Germany, too. So it's not just us with problems, I don't know whether it's a vial shortage there, it may well be.

www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-german-states-say-vaccinations-delayed-due-to-shortage/a-56097728

DWK Life Sciences agreed to manufacture glass vials for vaccines, so we do make some here, but do we make enough?

www.manufacturingmanagement.co.uk/news/dwk-life-sciences-announces-packaging-agreement-to-support-vmic

Maybe the UK is sourcing vials from the EU too - Germany and Italy being likely candidates (Schott and Stevanato are both huge suppliers of pharmaceutical grade glass). I imagine they're under a lot of pressure.

There are also needles and syringes needed in huge amounts. They don't grow on trees, either, so possible hold-ups there.

www.vox.com/recode/22151473/vaccine-covid-19-pfizer-glass-syringes-needles-freezers

The contract for the manufacturing of the glass vials has gone to this bloke

metro.co.uk/2020/11/26/ex-pub-landlord-at-matt-hancocks-local-wins-big-nhs-contract-13658326/

Ex landlord of Matt Hancock's local pub apparently. So don't hold your breath on the vials.

There are also needles and syringes needed in huge amounts. They don't grow on trees, either, so possible hold-ups there.

They don't grow on trees but as a nation we can manufacture them given 9 months notice which is what we have had .

I actually think he was answering the questions well. He did say the figure of vaccines that are ready for Monday. And he stated there are differences in the figures we get because one refers to doses ready to be injected, and the other to doses ready to be distributed.
Andrew Marr kept, yet again, cutting in, interrupting and he does not let him speak.
He did also answer a question about GCSEs.

I thought the interview was good.
Some on here should check the vaccine roll outs in other countries to see we are not alone. All countries are experiencing issues and we are doing relatively well. Germany a mix up of doses, vials that got too warm and had to be discarded and deliverys cancelled and generally not enough. Everywhere will have logistical issues at times, it’s inevitable but we are really doing ok here. Israel is going great guns too. I really hope they see a big drop in deaths very soon. It will be a good incentive for the rest of the world I think.