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If only the unions could start demanding 2 million vaccinations a week

33 replies

notevenat20 · 03/01/2021 08:54

There is a lot of chat here about opening or closing schools. But really it's almost irrelevant. See for example this LSHTM modelling. All that matters in terms of saving lives is the rate we vaccinate at and that isn't fast enough currently. We should save all our energy to lobby/scream at the govt to speed this up.

If only the unions could start demanding 2 million vaccinations a week
OP posts:
Motorina · 03/01/2021 10:28

@notevenat20

It was approved on the 30th and will be rolled out on the 4th. There was a grand total of one working day inbetween the two.

I guess I think that when there is a national crisis some people have to work on the weekend. If the real problem is a shortage of glass vials then that is very frustrating as they would have known since the start of the trials months ago that they would be needed.

Well, yes. The NHS has been working 24/7 throughout.

Run through the dates.

Vaccine approval on the 30th. One day to transport. To do that on the 30th you would have needed lorries on standby, from the 27th, because we did not know when the vaccine would be approved.

So, probably more realistic to transport on the 31st, having called up your urgent drivers on the 30th. How many drivers do you need to transport vaccine around the country? Are they available? Are they tied up at Dover?

Vaccine centres need to be set up, with fridges, and procedures to monitor the cold chain. It's less rigorous than Pfizer, but still needs to be kept in a fridge. That fridge needs the temperature monitoring because, unlike your milk, there's no easy way to tell if the vaccine has been spoiled. You can't transport the vaccine til that's been done, and you can't finalise details til the MHRA release their report on the 30th.

Are you going to have read that report and got everythign set up for the 31st? It's tight. Would it be better to push back transport to the 1st? That's a bank holiday - is that going to impact on the availability of drivers? What about the weather? There's snow forecast. What's the impact of that on the delivery schedule?

Someone needs to call patients. You can't book appointments until you know the vaccines will be there. You can't organise clinics til you know the skill set of clinicians you need (which will vary depending on the vaccine protocol, not available til the 30th). How much space do you need - well, that depends on how long patients will have to wait afterwards, which you won't know til the 30th. And you don't know how many patients you can see an hour without that information.

So, the vaccine is pitching up on the 1st, God-willing. Lets start phoning patients. Are your admin team available? A third of them are off with Covid, and the others are exhausted. Many are young mums, because that's the nature of the NHS workforce. Are they willing to come in on the 1st to make calls, at virtually no notice. they aren't contracted to work weekends but, under the circumstances, many will be willing. Can they sort the childcare?

How much notice do your patients need? Unlikely you'll get many in on the day you call them. What about the 2nd? Probably. Some. Enough, given many of the target agegroup will rely on family for support. Possibly...

And so it goes... It's not as simple as pressing the go button, and the vaccines are there and ready to give. There's an awful lot of logistics and messy people management that has to happen first. Being done by people who are already over-stretched, in the middle of the holiday period.

PleasantVille · 03/01/2021 10:59

@notevenat20

There are also needles and syringes needed in huge amounts. They don't grow on trees, either, so possible hold-ups there.

They don't grow on trees but as a nation we can manufacture them given 9 months notice which is what we have had .

You seem to have the answers to the issues and limiting factors, what are you doing to pass on your solutions to the world's leaders and experts?

I'm getting a bit sick of the MN armchair experts on everything, makes me wonder why all the professors, doctors and scientists wasted all those years getting qualified rather than just asking on here, it's getting even more ridiculous

Could you start with your detailed plan on how to increase the worldwide capacity for production of vials and needles, bullet points will do to get us going.

notevenat20 · 03/01/2021 11:01

You seem to have the answers to the issues and limiting factors, what are you doing to pass on your solutions to the world's leaders and experts?

Sadly my "answers" are to have had everything in place for the date of the approval.

OP posts:
notevenat20 · 03/01/2021 11:02

Could you start with your detailed plan on how to increase the worldwide capacity for production of vials and needles, bullet points will do to get us going

Is there a reason why we haven't been making/ordering them since March in preparation?

OP posts:
GoldenOmber · 03/01/2021 11:11

‘capacity for production’ means limits on the factories, materials and so on that you need to make them. It’s hard to increase that capacity to meet all the global demand, you can’t just order them off Amazon Prime.

PleasantVille · 03/01/2021 11:12

@notevenat20

Could you start with your detailed plan on how to increase the worldwide capacity for production of vials and needles, bullet points will do to get us going

Is there a reason why we haven't been making/ordering them since March in preparation?

OK, so in March what exactly should anyone have been making/ordering for a hypothetical vaccine that no one knew was ever going to be possible?

Who would be in charge of that, where would it be done, how would the raw materials be sourced, where would the production capacity come from

And remember you're doing this in the middle of a pandemic. Do you work in any of these fields?

sashagabadon · 03/01/2021 11:14

@notevenat20

You seem to have the answers to the issues and limiting factors, what are you doing to pass on your solutions to the world's leaders and experts?

Sadly my "answers" are to have had everything in place for the date of the approval.

Lol! I’d vote for you not even! This is genius Grin
Unsure33 · 03/01/2021 11:17

Love this thread. They explained at the conference as well about distribution. And I am sure there has been preparation. But whatever is needed, the whole world will be clamouring for as well.

It’s the same as in the beginning , ventilators were needed . Companies lept into action , not easy because of regulatory requirements. Then it changed to cpap. Then oxygen supplies, again a logistical nightmare. Plus blood gas analysis. I think people should be praising the reactions and research and reactions of scientists and companies not forever criticising.

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