Am I missing the point here...

[kookykins]

I'm going to try and make this as measured as I can and try not to make it come across like a torrent of frustration.

Why is it that teachers are getting to say when schools go back? Why does it feel like teachers are constantly complaining about the virus? No one is an ideal situation right now so why does it feel like they are being allowed to 'opt out' of their careers now times are tough.

I work in a busy NHS hospital and It honestly sickens and saddens me that there are men and women, many parents relying on schools to open, relying on their children's education being properly resumed next week they are giving life saving treatment in dire situations every day. I haven't heard them complaining about having to come in and save lives work extra hours and a lot on low pay.

Teachers to an extent have chosen a career to support teach and mentor our children I feel when the going has got touch (very tough fair enough) they are opting out...however many of these teachers will expect ITU nurses to treat someone in their family who happens to get ill with this virus. How can this be? How is this ok?

I have friends who are teachers who don't feel like this and who want to get back to work but are very much being pulled along by the union so I don't want to paint all teachers with the same brush...

What happens to the children who need to go back to school, who need that hot meal that support that escape? Do they not matter?

Surely the children of this country are a higher priority right now?
Teachers and unions are being given insane amounts of power right now and I don't understand it. If we are all meant to 'be in it together' then why aren't we all cracking on like the next person and getting on with our jobs because we realise the impact if we don't...

Rant over...

@Boudicabooandbulldogs

Do you think that we weren’t trying to make things ‘as safe as possible’ when Covid cases skyrocketed in schools just before Christmas?

What would do you do to make schools as safe as possible, so that they could open this Monday?

@user1471588124
Totally agree with you, it’s a vital service that if stopped would have a huge negative impact for your service users. I know this as my sons support groups have been stopped and he has regressed a lot.
Schools are not just places of education for primary aged children. They provide a safe place, a place to socialise with peers, a place to develop and grow. A place where any dangers in their life have a chance to be seen.
For me at least the risks of shutting schools are too high for too many children.

@TheSultanofPingu

Op, aren't you concerned that if schools remain open cases will skyrocket, making your very stressful job even harder for you and your colleagues?

Yes, wouldn't you prefer to see lower cases sooner, with key worker children having a place at school? Or more cases and more schools completely shut, with no KW provision? It really baffles me, how someone who works in the nhs can't reason that out.

@kookykins Yes you are missing the point.

Opening schools at this point will allow yet more mixing of the virus, the new strain is 70% more transmissive and lead to an explosion of cases and the collapse of the health service. If I was a teacher I would not go back in - I back teachers 100%.

I speak as a frontline nhs worker!

And on a petty note 're your comment on teachers getting a Christmas shopping day - nhs staff used to get one at managers discretion too.

Let's pull together not tear each other apart.

I just love the number of people who love schools but absolutely hate teachers.

It's really got past the point of whether schools are safe, it's whether the communities are safe now.

@DBML
Yes I would hope you were. The school I work in certainly was.
Lots of hand washing and bubbles.
How long would you close schools for? When would it be safe to go back?
It’s a tricky situation, but for myself personally, especially after seeing how far children had fallen behind not just academically, it’s worth keeping them open.

I think that people will still die if you do remote learning and look after key worker children because somewhere down the line a key worker may not be able to send their child to school and therefore won't be working on the frontline so someone may pass away due to this sadly...

Eh? So it's better that there are no key worker spaces and no school? This sounds a bit like you are moaning because your DH isn't key worker and you can't get a space of your own. Of course protecting key worker provision is the right thing to do, and a lot more "people will die!" if schools don't.

I don't agree for calls for teachers to be prioritised for vaccination. It has to go first to those in our society at highest risk of death. It can't on an ethical level be right to vaccinate teachers (average age in UK 39yrs) over the elderly or clinically vulnerable.

On a wider level, it is a sensible precaution to shut schools to suppress transmission in tier 4 areas, to protect society as a whole . I don't quite understand why it has to be dressed up as "protecting teaching staff who are working in an unsafe environment" rather than just as a measure to protect a population?

Perhaps it has to be worded this way by teaching unions to stand up legally.

To those who support school closures, how long should they close for?

@borntohula

Ah well, if homeschooling all children is adequate, what's the point in schools ever being open? Might as well close them permanently.

Eh?... because its a pandemic ...

@Nikhedonia

To those who support school closures, how long should they close for?

Until patients top being left in ambulances and corridors without oxygen or medical care because the hospitals are overwhelmed.

I would close them until there is a definite downward curve in hospital icu/critical care bed admissions. Until the NHS a knew it could cope for the rest of the winter.

@zaffa that's been happening since way before the pandemic.

It really shouldn't be a race to the bottom though should it? Not in a nation as developed as ours.

We all deserve (and are legally entitled under s44, regardless of our profession) to safe working conditions and environment. I'd support all individuals or groups lobbying gov to provide this - whether it be NHS or otherwise.

I'm sad to see the brunt of negativity being directed at teachers and unions when the reality is that the government owe public sector staff a duty of care which they've failed to provide. Education workers, SAGE and others have advised the government how to open schools in the most covid secure ways since lockdown 1 but this has been totally ignored. Funding has not been provided to schools to help address needs, yet we all dined out in August and dropped 50% of the bill to The government!?

Can we please be a little kinder to each other? We're all working in horrific circumstances and supporting each other to try and drive better conditions is what will actually achieve positive change. Bemoaning and slagging each other off will not resolve the situation.

The real problem is not teachers but the teaching unions. In the first lockdown they encouraged teachers not to teach online or do any marking because of educational inequalities. So now when they call for schools to go online everyone is waiting for them to say that they didn't really mean online they meant no teaching....

It's crazy.

SAGE have said that schools must close to get the rates down.

The hospitals are overwhelmed. Rates are soaring out of control.

We actually are administering the vaccine now. There is light at the end of the tunnel - why screw it all up now when the end is in sight?!

It seems crazy not to keep schools closed after all the Christmas mixing which will increase rates even more. The government have lost control of cases now and need to take action. God help anyone who needs hospital care in the next few weeks.

Only Vulnerable children and NHS frontline worker children should be in school.

At the end of the day SAGE know a lot more than politicians who clearly only care about votes not lives.

Its disgraceful how much power the Unions have. And disgraceful that teachers are now threatening not to turn up at work.
Maybe if they weren't guaranteed their wage and job it might make them turn up.
Good job super market staff and other front line workers don't share their views.

I don't quite understand why it has to be dressed up as "protecting teaching staff who are working in an unsafe environment" rather than just as a measure to protect a population?

SAGE were recommending it in order to protect the population. The government has ignored their advice and schools/teachers/unions cannot force them to follow SAGE’s advice. So we’ve reached the point where the largest teaching union are saying “enough is enough” and that school staff (like everyone else in the UK) have a right to be safe ourselves. Separately, the union which protects head teachers is starting legal action against the government, because they are unable to keep their staff and pupils safe.

Ultimately, this gives the government perfect cover - they can close schools as blame the evil unions / workshy teachers. Many people will believe them.

PS - I don’t mean “safe” in absolute terms. I simply mean very basic measures, like teachers being allowed to wear masks and having sufficient budget for soap.

Right thanks chloecrocodile I see the reasons behind the narrative the Unions have taken. You're right though that in framing it as "protecting teaching staff's safety" it has cast teachers in a bad light in a way, as if they're work shy or prioritising themselves over providing education.
When in fact it is to protect a population and to suppress transmission in society and should be worded as such to avoid teachers being victimised.

Yes. Yes you are missing the point.

[quote kookykins]@DBML hi I'm not sure yet because I'm the only key worker in the house hold DH is not...no reply
From school at present as they also don't know what's happening next week...[/quote]
So if your husband is not a key worker, can't he work from home with your child?

Seriously, unions are not in a position of power. Even when local authorities wanted to close schools before Christmas, the government wouldn't let them. The ones calling the shots here are the government, not the unions, teachers or local authorities.

@Nikhedonia

To those who support school closures, how long should they close for?

If we close now,kids will be home learning online until nhs can take in non-covid patiens without bursting. Say 3 weeks. If we close when no staff is fit enough to teach, kids will be home without learning, as nhs would already have been broken, teachers might take longer to return say 3 weeks.