Am I missing the point here...

[kookykins]

I'm going to try and make this as measured as I can and try not to make it come across like a torrent of frustration.

Why is it that teachers are getting to say when schools go back? Why does it feel like teachers are constantly complaining about the virus? No one is an ideal situation right now so why does it feel like they are being allowed to 'opt out' of their careers now times are tough.

I work in a busy NHS hospital and It honestly sickens and saddens me that there are men and women, many parents relying on schools to open, relying on their children's education being properly resumed next week they are giving life saving treatment in dire situations every day. I haven't heard them complaining about having to come in and save lives work extra hours and a lot on low pay.

Teachers to an extent have chosen a career to support teach and mentor our children I feel when the going has got touch (very tough fair enough) they are opting out...however many of these teachers will expect ITU nurses to treat someone in their family who happens to get ill with this virus. How can this be? How is this ok?

I have friends who are teachers who don't feel like this and who want to get back to work but are very much being pulled along by the union so I don't want to paint all teachers with the same brush...

What happens to the children who need to go back to school, who need that hot meal that support that escape? Do they not matter?

Surely the children of this country are a higher priority right now?
Teachers and unions are being given insane amounts of power right now and I don't understand it. If we are all meant to 'be in it together' then why aren't we all cracking on like the next person and getting on with our jobs because we realise the impact if we don't...

Rant over...

@Fortherosesjoni70 I disagree to an extent. When I trained as a nurse 13 years ago it never crossed my mind there would be a pandemic. At basic medical and nursing levels you prep for emergencies like terrorist attacks and car pile ups. No one anticipated a pandemic.

If that is true then that is very odd as: 14 years ago i was on the management committee of a Pre-school - and one of the things I was briefed on by the LA and became responsible for was "Pandemic Training". In fact I'm horrified that the little preparation we were doing then seems to have been rolled back since then- we should al have been more prepared.

Op, why did you bring up an 'inset day for shopping in November'?
That was rather random don't you think?
DecemberSun has it spot on.

@DBML hi I'm not sure yet because I'm the only key worker in the house hold DH is not...no reply
From school at present as they also don't know what's happening next week...

Why would you not be at work? Critical workers can send children to school.

Hi Op

First thanks for all the care you have given. I cannot imagine what you have seen.

My company decided in March 2020 that 90% of the employees will WFH. I realise that my working environment is a lot safer than yours. Would you also recommend that we work from office for sake of fairness? Would that make things better for you? People have not made a fuss because our employer decided to keep us safe.

As ex school staff and now frontline NHS, I support schools moving online in the short term whilst things are organised and the level of transmission in schools is reduced. We cannot afford a massive spike in cases transferred to adults from children at present given that admissions are going up so rapidly and we haven't even seen the results of Christmas and New Year mixing yet. Although it can never be 100% safe as even with PPE the virus can still be transmitted.

I did not have PPE at the beginning of all of this, but now we do. School staff should also be entitled to this, but masks should be provided that have clear parts over the mouth to help children with hearing impairments. Aprons for us are changed between patients which I don't think would be feasible for every contact school staff have with a child unless providing personal care for a child. Masks, ventilation and good hand hygiene are more practical. Reduced bubble sizes with alternating online learning in secondary also seems reasonable.

I am very concerned about the impact on mental health of young people of longer term online schooling, admissions have sky rocketed since March. I am also concerned about the amount of vulnerable children slipping through the net when not seen regularly by school staff, child protection referrals went up massively in September for children who were not in school as vulnerable in the last lockdown as the thresholds are high and many are monitored by the school yet not on child in need or child protection plans. Lack of food despite free school meals vouchers is also an issue when schools are closed. Children with special/complex needs and their families also need more support if their schools close as they are getting little respite, the children do not understand why their routine has changed and parents and carers are on their knees with exhaustion. My special needs child could not engage with online learning and so on my days off I would have to teach him as well as work full time on the frontline.

None of this is easy for anyone. I did not go into the NHS to work in a pandemic. When my DH is out of hospital (due to Covid) and I am better myself, I will be back at work providing care because that is my job and my patients need me.

I never had a Christmas shopping day when I worked in schools btw.

How about we all just try to work together and make the best out of the shit situation we all find ourselves in.

@kookykins
I worked as a counsellor for the NHS I have friends who are nurses and worked on the COVID wards with no PPE. I have friends working on the psych wards getting spat at still with no PPE. Friends in the police who have no PPE. None have had the vaccine yet
No one went into a career expecting this to happen. I think the unions are doing teachers a disservice, and failing young people miserably.
I think it’s a difficult discussion and provokes strong feelings.
But the facts are that young children especially primary fall behind quickly. Even more so in economically deprived areas, where lack of access to tech limits ability to use online learning and also where English isn’t spoken at home. We are leaving these children too far behind if we shut primary schools.

Teachers and unions are being given insane amounts of power right now and I don't understand it.

This possibly shows how little you know. Unions have been ignored, that have asked, demanded safer working conditions from the start and all we have is cold water and soap and handgel 🤔 Teachers have no power, possibly less than nurses. As for your friends being controlled by their union, bullshit! The only thing English teachers have been asked to consider doing, from Monday is not attend work due to lack of safety in the work place. If they are not a member of this union they dad on as normal, if they are a member they decide if they feel this is true and what they should do. No pressure, I often don't do what my union asks.

Also the reasons behind schools temporarily shutting to all pupilsbis to reduce community transmition and reduce impact on NHS which you will be aware of as it is key to your role. My friends and family who are nurses (anecdotal) support closures for a week or to after Christmas mixing as they see cases rising, after they think it should be on a numbers basis.

@Boudicabooandbulldogs everything you have said I totally get and you've put it much better than me I'm also very worried about my child who is falling behind since all this despite us giving her a decent level of home education...I know there are many children who are worse off and honestly it breaks my heart.

I know parents who are really struggling and will struggle further without the comforting routine of school, many of these parents are frontline workers...

Teacher need to be careful what they wish for, if teaching can be done online then we need less teachers. one teacher teaching exactly the same lesson 5/6 times a day for different groups of children, less teachers will be needed. I have decided if teacher believe that the stuff they send home and do on zoom if adequate then their standards are very low.
Not all parents are sat at home ready to be teacher and if I was I would be considering home schooling.
The loudest people about school closing are everyone who works in a school and the parents were one or both don't work. I notice that those of us who work are silent and I expect because we don't want the abuse that we don't care about our children.

I was shocked at how little my children's schools did in the first lock down and they have really stepped it up.

@WalkingAfterMidnight

I teach in a LEA in Wales with the highest rates of C-19 in the UK.

I teach all of year 10 & all of year 11. So ‘bubbles’ of about 500 pupils.

One class had 35 pupils in it - 30 computers so you can imagine how small and poorly ventilated this valleys school was.

I kicked up a fuss as I couldn’t go to a funeral with 35 people in attendance.

I was moved to a room with 17 desks - 34 seats so one short anyway. A new pupil joined the class so another desk was added.

Hours at a time in over-crowded, poorly ventilated rooms, trying to teach face to face and provide lessons to self isolating pupils, cleaning laptops and desks between every lesson.

No PPE and impossible to socially distance and not following rules in school that applied to the community at large...yet as a teacher I’m whinging.

Yeah...

I think teachers have been thrown to the wolves. Teachers need to be eligible for the vaccine SOON and have weekly testing IMO..

@upthekyber such a good point I have found my daughters homeschooling better than the first lockdown when it was far from adequate in my opinion...

I just think primary schools at least need to stay open with the appropriate ppe etc and protection for teachers...

@kookykins

But we can't just decide to leave or that actually it's too dangerous to work (talking from an nhs workers perspective here)

I mean, you can.

You absolutely can.

You're choosing not to- I'm assuming that's because people will die if you don't.

I feel that if I go to work as normal as a teacher, people will die because of that choice. I don't think anyone will die if I provide remote education and care for keyworker children.

Are people really finding it so hard to see the bigger picture here? This isn't just about protecting teachers - although that's massively important, if I suggested my staff worked in the conditions teachers were expected to I'd be having grievances raised left, right and centre, the bigger picture is that kids getting Covid spread it to people who may die/need hospital treatment - keep them home you reduce community spread. I don't consider myself a particularly intelligent person but surely you don't have to be that clever to see the issue??

[quote kookykins]@upthekyber such a good point I have found my daughters homeschooling better than the first lockdown when it was far from adequate in my opinion...

I just think primary schools at least need to stay open with the appropriate ppe etc and protection for teachers...[/quote]
The point is that primary schools have no PPE. They have been asking nicely for a term.

So as a profession we have stopped asking nicely.

Yes I mean it's true because I don't want to let my team down at a time like this.

I think that people will still die if you do remote learning and look after key worker children because somewhere down the line a key worker may not be able to send their child to school and therefore won't be working on the frontline so someone may pass away due to this sadly...

@willandgrace . Nope they can’t see the bigger picture. They’ve lost it somewhere.

The fewer people there are out and about and mixing, the harder it is for the virus to spread and the more wriggle room the NHS a has to spare and the more time we have to vaccinate before the virus mutates.

It’s not about education. At all.

Teacher need to be careful what they wish for, if teaching can be done online then we need less teachers. one teacher teaching exactly the same lesson 5/6 times a day for different groups of children, less teachers will be needed. I have decided if teacher believe that the stuff they send home and do on zoom if adequate then their standards are very low.

WTF??? Teachers are not wishing for online teaching and saying it's as good as in class teaching.

They just don't feel it's safe and that the reason rates are so high and rising, is because schools are open.

People really do just make up any old shit to swipe at how shit teachers are don't they

@kookykins what exactly do you do in the hospital? Are you a doctor, nurse?

@kookykins
We are all struggling. My son has autism and cannot go to his college as usual due to the masks which he is finding it very hard to adjust to. Especially as we have been shouted at when we weren’t wearing one.
I know I certainly couldn’t help any of my children with subjects I’m not good at, even though I did choose to homeschool my son I also had tutors for him.
I also worry what we are doing to children’s mental health instilling fear at such a young stage is never healthy and will have unforeseen long term impacts.
This is a horrendous situation but we have to try to make it as safe as possible and keep the schools open.

I'm a support worker in the community on minimum wage and while i wear a mask my clients don't and we can't observe a safe distance and do our job and are in peoples housez for long periods. Yet we have to carry on with iy because the risks of not supporting these people are greater than the benefits of us shutting down our service. I personally see schools in the same catergory

@SamVimesFavouriteDragon

Presumably at work you get access to PPE? That's one of the key differences

Fancy doing your job without it?

You'll get earlier access to the vaccine - at the moment I'm in the final vaccination group - fancy swapping places?

As is constantly said - NhS staff only get a paper mask when treating covid patients who wear no mask and cough all over us. We are not protected.

The irony..

My expectation is my child will be educated (in a safe environment 100%) I'm sure the public expectation of nurses is they will treat their patients whatever happens in any circumstances and put that patient first - that's what we are doing in awful circumstances atm.

But @kookykins, like teachers, you aren't able to treat the patients whatever happens in any circumstances anymore according to the press. You're overloaded in many trusts and nurses are being stretched far beyond the intended capacity, patients aren't being treated because treatment is being cancelled.
Teachers, similarly, aren't able to provide a safe environment to teach children because they haven't been given the tools to secure schools.
Both of these things ultimately are the shortcoming of the government.
If nothing changes in schools, then what education will your child get when their bubble bursts with such regularity and they can't be in school? By limiting school places to the children who require it because they are vulnerable or their parents are key workers, you actually stand a better chance of them remaining in education in a safer environment.

Yes, you are missing the point. Should I elaborate?