Hospitalisation Rates in Children

[ClimbDad]

Mumsnet removed a thread discussing hospitalisation and risks to children following the LBC interview with the hospital matron.

The Department of Health publishes hospitalisation figures by age. Daily hospitalisation of children is currently averaging 40 to 50 admissions.

coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=England

The admissions criteria is designed to exclude children who are in hospital for other reasons and catch Covid-19.

I don’t know what we consider an acceptable level of risk. We haven’t had that conversation as a country, but I feel sorry for the hundreds of families living through this horrific experience every week.

@Chaotic45 there is no reason to cover up at all. In my hospital we are very transparent about numbers and ages of patients. The London trusts are all working together closely - we are sharing information. So I’m not really sure this is quite correct - well it wasn’t yesterday.

Months ago I commented on a thread saying how the second wave of the spanish flu affected younger people and some rude twat, ripped my head and low and behold what is happening?

What's annoying is for Mumsnet to keep pulling threads.

But if they’re started by PBP and thus breaking site guidelines, what else would they do?

A strong Us4Them contingent present I see.

Also interesting that most Children in hospital at this time of the year are suffering from conditions like bronchiolitis. My neighbour is a consultant paediatrician - it was a complete surprise to me that she seem to be mainly a “lung” doctor dealing with bronchiolitis etc and that her work is extremely seasonal.

@Justiceisblind

I propose a vote of thanks to the HCPs on the thread for their reassuring explanations.such as the one below.

“Yep. Children will be being tested before being admitted for routine, elective, or accident/medical issues. Some will turn out to have Covid but be asymptomatic.

It's unhelpful to think of these numbers as representing children seriously ill from Covid, and risks scaring people unnecessarily.”

The original figures posted by the OP aren't for children admitted for other reasons, though? The dashboard doesn't show all admissions to hospital, only those due to COVID.

If it’s a big difference in the numbers for children admitted with covid as a coincidental finding and children admitted because of covid the govt need to be transparent and publish those figures. I’m sure the hospitals will be able to count up which is which and tell them.

Placemarking and hoping this one doesn't disappear...

The Telegraph have taken the story of the London Nurse down.

@RIPVacuumCleaner

I suspect the truth of the matter is that child covid cases are rising in line with the overall increase in covid cases, but that the percentage of children affected is still low relative to other age groups.

What's annoying is for Mumsnet to keep pulling threads. After all, Radio 5 and the Telegraph, while sensationalist, still generally hold off from completely making shit up.

Radio 5 have had some under qualified people spouting incorrect information and presenting it as fact several times recently.

I really enjoy listening to it generally but have recently been really disappointed by this. They have allowed people to present their own opinion as fact, and not made it at all clear that we are listening to opinion only.

I would like to repost a non-alarmist and informative report on the susceptibility of children to the new variant from the BMJ. ( I posted it originally on one of the zapped threads.)

The severity of disease issue was not addressed in the article.

"Are children more susceptible to the new variant?
Yes, in comparison with the non-variant virus. Speaking at a press briefing, Neil Ferguson, director of the Medical Research Council’s Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis at Imperial College London and NERVTAG member, said that during the November lockdown in England there was a “general shift in the distribution of the virus towards children—for both the variant and the non-variant [virus].” This was expected, because of schools remaining open during the lockdown, he said, and among those aged under 15 there were slightly more cases of the variant virus in the community than the non-variant, though not significantly so.

But Barclay, who also sits on NERVTAG, said, “Let’s be clear. We’re not saying that this is a virus that specifically attacks children or is any more specific in its ability to infect children. But we know that SARS-CoV-2, as it emerged, was not as efficient at infecting children as it was adults. There are many hypotheses [as to why], but one is the expression of the ACE2 receptor that could be different in children. So if the [new variant] virus is having an easier time of finding and entering the cells, then that would put children on a more level playing field, if you like.”

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4944

It would be useful to know whether the children who are suffering from serious asthma, bronchiolitis et cetera are likely to have worse symptoms if they are also Covid positive

Is anybody able to advise?

A strong Us4Them contingent present I see.

Based on ... what?

Certain posters tend to use this, with no basis, to discredit people. If you can find any actual evidence to link anyone to Us4Them do state it. Otherwise, it’s meaningless.

@ofwarren

The Telegraph have taken the story of the London Nurse down.

This alarms me even more!

If people post crap that isn't substantiated by reliable evidence - which happens quite frequently on MN - then others will challenge them on it and pick their posts apart

Some will, yes - but once a certain level of group emotion's built up they're often roundly abused for it
As said, it's perhaps best to wait until reputable evidence is available before pushing the panic button

@ofwarren

The Telegraph have taken the story of the London Nurse down.

No, still up through yahoo search engine

DD has several hospitalisation for “viral induced wheeze” when she was 2 and 3 years old. Every time there were lots of other children in for same thing (she was eventually diagnosed with asthma). Every time she had oxygen for several days.

So surely a lot of the “normal” expected cases of “viral induced wheeze” will be reclassified as Coronavirus cases now, as the virus that’s causing the wheezing is being tested for is known?

The really scary threat to children is hospital having too many oxygen- dependent patients, which could undermine their care.

@Barbie222 have you clicked on it though? It comes up on my search but when I click it's just an error page.

[quote Pomegranatespompom]@Chaotic45 there is no reason to cover up at all. In my hospital we are very transparent about numbers and ages of patients. The London trusts are all working together closely - we are sharing information. So I’m not really sure this is quite correct - well it wasn’t yesterday.[/quote]
Thank you for clarifying this. IMO to think that hospitals would cover up numbers is straying into conspiracy territory.

This is all playing on people's worst fears and it's difficult to observe.

Longcovidkids and Tigress have been tracking child hospital admissions using government data...

[quote covetingthepreciousthings]@Barbie222 have you clicked on it though? It comes up on my search but when I click it's just an error page.[/quote]
uk.news.yahoo.com/covid-wards-full-children-first-145710847.html

“The dashboard doesn't show all admissions to hospital, only those due to COVID”

I don’t think so. Kids hospitalised after bumping their heads will be tested and,if positive, be included in the figures

Placemaking

Good point

“The really scary threat to children is hospital having too many oxygen- dependent patients, which could undermine their care.”

[quote OutwiththeOutCrowd]I would like to repost a non-alarmist and informative report on the susceptibility of children to the new variant from the BMJ. ( I posted it originally on one of the zapped threads.)

The severity of disease issue was not addressed in the article.

"Are children more susceptible to the new variant?
Yes, in comparison with the non-variant virus. Speaking at a press briefing, Neil Ferguson, director of the Medical Research Council’s Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis at Imperial College London and NERVTAG member, said that during the November lockdown in England there was a “general shift in the distribution of the virus towards children—for both the variant and the non-variant [virus].” This was expected, because of schools remaining open during the lockdown, he said, and among those aged under 15 there were slightly more cases of the variant virus in the community than the non-variant, though not significantly so.

But Barclay, who also sits on NERVTAG, said, “Let’s be clear. We’re not saying that this is a virus that specifically attacks children or is any more specific in its ability to infect children. But we know that SARS-CoV-2, as it emerged, was not as efficient at infecting children as it was adults. There are many hypotheses [as to why], but one is the expression of the ACE2 receptor that could be different in children. So if the [new variant] virus is having an easier time of finding and entering the cells, then that would put children on a more level playing field, if you like.”

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4944[/quote]
I posted the second paragraph of that on a thread on 26 December discussing the effect of a more transmissible version in chiodren.

No deletions on that thread, so I dint think MNHQ can have a total objection to discussing this, or if they have is is very new.

If the difference in mechanism of entering the body means the protective effect of different number of ACE-2 receptor no longer applies, then yes of course DC will be catching it more readily, but healthy children will not be getting it any worse than any other healthy teens/young adults.