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keeping primary kids home - best way to avoid a fine?

112 replies

dreamsofholidays · 01/01/2021 17:46

Local primaries are open, I'm CV and don't trust this government to make sensible decisions about the safety of schools. In my assessment, the biggest risk to our family in the short-term is losing a parent rather than missing some weeks of school. But I would like to avoid the stress and expense of being fined - I get very anxious of being 'in trouble' with school! What's the best way to avoid a fine - do I (a) write to the head honestly (b) say household has covid symptoms and string that out for a bit or (c) something else? Also, how much would fines be - is it per child? Per day? Per week?

OP posts:
FamilyOfAliens · 01/01/2021 19:44

@HmmSureJan

Twisting words doesn’t even cover it.

Grin says you!

You do understand that some people just disagree with your stance don't you and you cannot shame them into submission? Look I am not even reading half of your lengthy self defensive posts. Just stop trying to shame and frighten posters for discussing perfectly reasonable options, just because they don't happen to fit your personal, punitive, moral code and you won't get tackled on it in a way your clearly don't like to be. Let's leave it there shall we? Smile

I don’t care if you disagree with me.

I care if you claim I posted that looking out for your family is distasteful. Because that’s a lie.

HmmSureJan · 01/01/2021 19:47

@dreamsofholidays I'm reading the other threads and news reports on this and I suspect people will see that London schools are closing and keep their children off also if they're in a Tier 4 area. Back in March in our area dd went in to less and less fellow students each day and I believe this happened all over until the government finally took decisive action and formally shut the schools. I think that's going to happen again this time and you aren't going to have to worry about coming up with reasons to keep your child off.

CorvusPurpureus · 01/01/2021 19:48

Honestly, I'd just say something super vague like off colour/she's not herself/he's had a bit of a funny tummy/they both had headaches this morning etc etc.

The HT will absolutely know that you & probably dozens of other parents are pulling one; (s)he is highly unlikely to want to drop any of you in it in the current circumstances.

Every likelihood that the school will be closed within a week - either officially by government announcement or because staff keep keeling over & most of the year group bubbles have popped.

I can sort of see why the government aren't giving people official carte blanche to choose to keep kids off - some vulnerable children would just disappear off the radar - but if there are no other reasons for school to be concerned about your family, I'd be pretty confident they'll have no interest in chasing you.

HmmSureJan · 01/01/2021 19:50

I care if you claim I posted that looking out for your family is distasteful. Because that’s a lie.

You asserted that not doing it the way you think is the right way is distasteful. I've been very clear about that. No one is "lying" here, they're just not agreeing with you. I get it. You don't like being disagreed with but that's just tough really.

pursuedbyablackdog · 01/01/2021 19:51

Re being fined, our LEA won't fine for the first 4.5 school days of absence. The fine kicks at 10 sessions (5 full days). The fine is charged per parent and each child at school. Iirc it's £65 per person for each period of absence. But check your LEA website as it's different in each district!

Personally I'd be honest as you can challenge / appeal the fine. And to be honest I think so many LEAs are going to find huge absence and will find the administration costs so high they will be unlikely to proceed.

SquishySquirmy · 01/01/2021 19:55

I wouldn't lie about having symptoms, personally. Because if you have symptoms, the whole family has to isolate until you test negative.
Would you be doing that? What if you are spotted by someone who thinks you are isolating with symptoms (out for a walk, at the supermarket etc)?
Do you admit to lying, or be blamed for breaking quarantine rules?
Its exactly the kind if lie which can spin out of control.

Plus, if the school believes you (they may well be sceptical) then remember that your child's teacher is a human being who already has a lot to worry about at the moment.

Imagine them worrying about you and your child being sick with Covid, when you're actually all fine!
Will you have to explain why you can't get a test? Will you lie about your child finding the test too distressing? Or will you say you are positive? What next?

I just wouldn't do it personally.
Terrible message to give your kids as well... they would not be lying to "The Government" , they would be lying directly to their teacher and the school. The very adults we normally trust to educate and care for our children 5 days a week.

I would send an honest email, outlining your concerns and the reasons you have for keeping them off school.

Blubellsarebells · 01/01/2021 19:56

They wont fine if you're self isolating or have symptoms/other illness.
Im so angry that we are being put in this position that I do feel like honesty is the better policy.
That we should all call our schools and say our children wont be in because its not safe and its madness to send them.
But I also cant afford a fine, and dont have the mental energy to appeal one.

Gellert · 01/01/2021 19:59

Say you're isolating due to a ping on the app or something, children will be X coded on register and it won't affect schools attendance figures.

Indecisive12 · 01/01/2021 20:00

Please don’t lie and say you have to isolate for 14 days. 1 - it’s awful to lie about being ill 2- it’s a poor example to set to your children and put them in a position of having to lie to who should be trusted adults they can turn to 3 - you’ll be easily caught out since isolating has changed to 10 days.

Blubellsarebells · 01/01/2021 20:00

"I wouldn't lie about having symptoms, personally. Because if you have symptoms, the whole family has to isolate until you test negative."
This is why you say child only is a close contact of a positive and is isolating for that reason.
That's what I'll be doing.
That way I can still shop.
No lying about child being ill.

IloveJKRowling · 01/01/2021 20:07

please don't lie or pretend as that doesn't resolve anything

Well, normally I'd agree, yes, although it would be great if someone told the government this because all they've been doing since March is lying and pretending (and not resolving anything) which is the only reason the OP is in this situation.

I think that the last thing HTs are going to be concerned about is worrying about some vague excuse given by a parent saying their child is vaguely ill. They have enough on their plate.

The only reason parents can't be honest is because of the lying and bullying of DfE. If you lie you definitely won't get a fine, if you don't there's a small chance it will be escalated so - whilst I'm against lying in general - I do think it's the easiest option at the moment. And easier for the HT not just the parent.

Porcupineintherough · 01/01/2021 20:12

@Indecisive12 saying that you are self isolating isnt the same as saying you're ill- it means literally that. And in this case it would be true, the OP isnt proposing they miss school to go skiing or attend parties.

FamilyOfAliens · 01/01/2021 20:13

You asserted that not doing it the way you think is the right way is distasteful.

No, again that’s a lie.

I posted that I thought lying that you have symptoms of a disease that’s killed thousands is distasteful.

None of the OP’s three options were “the way I think is the right way”. They were all suggestions from the OP and she started the thread to ask which one people thought she should do.

dreamsofholidays · 01/01/2021 20:13

I appreciate all your replies, thank you for responding. I'm still trying to decide what to do. It has been really enlightening to read about what other parents think about lying in this situation, I really didn't expect that bit to be so contentious. I think there are quite a few situations I'd be happy to lie without it bothering my conscience e.g. to protect someone who was vulnerable and being persecuted/victimised, to protect my child, or someone else's child. I wouldn't judge someone else for doing the same. On the other hand, I'm really outraged by this government's attitude to the public, especially to people vulnerable due to their jobs, ethnicity, age, disability etc. I sometimes feel disposable :-(

OP posts:
dreamsofholidays · 01/01/2021 20:15

... and fwiw FamilyofAliens you are being a bit disingenuous. I read your posts as hmmSureJan did, whether you intended it or not.

OP posts:
FamilyOfAliens · 01/01/2021 20:17

@dreamsofholidays

... and fwiw FamilyofAliens you are being a bit disingenuous. I read your posts as hmmSureJan did, whether you intended it or not.
Well, she’ll be pleased about that.

But it’s still not what I posted, no matter if you agree with her or not.

Timeturnerplease · 01/01/2021 20:25

Our HT would be understanding, but you have to remember that schools’ hands are tied re the rules behind fines etc.

I wouldn’t expect to have a full timetable of home learning provided though, unless they have a pregnant/vulnerable teacher wfh to provide it.

Panickingpavlova · 01/01/2021 20:28

Personal, punative, moral code 😂😂

RememberSelfCompassion · 01/01/2021 20:31

I said in my letter I wasnt expecting anything different to what was provided for those isolating.

Im concerned about a fine. HT hands aren't that tied....

caringcarer · 01/01/2021 20:39

You have to self isolate for 12 days. If you keep them home fo teach them though. I honestly don't think schools will remain open with new case numbers so high.

LangClegsInSpace · 01/01/2021 20:43

The situation parents have been put in is beyond distasteful.

The U-turn in London happened because local authorities stood up for themselves and said they'd be prepared to go to court:

www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/downloads/download/1156/joint_letter_from_london_councils_on_primary_school_closure_-_january_2021

So it's worth finding out your LA's stance as well as the school's, because it's LAs who decide whether to issue fines and whether to prosecute.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's another U-turn and all schools are shut at the start of term. Probably this will be announced at around 7am on Monday so keep your powder dry for now.

SeasonFinale · 01/01/2021 21:13

She asked how to avoid fines and I answered. More ridiculous is her assertion that she has a defence that the government is incompetent or dishonest. Let's see how far that gets her.

The reality is she wi be fined if she keeps her kids off school. I am unsure how all the "keep them off school anyway hun" answers are of any use to her at all. They are not.

anonymous1020 · 01/01/2021 21:18

Hi all. I'm an education welfare officer meaning I work for the local authority to support and enforce school attendance and am responsible for making a final decision on when to issue a fine that a school has requested. I have commented on several threads today sorry I don't know how to link.

In brief

You absolutely cannot have your child's place withdrawn for lack of attendance or unauthorised absence. The law around removing children from a school roll is very strict however the 20 days absence one is a very common misconception and one we frequently have to challenge schools on.

I would advise you all to be honest with the school about why you want to keep your children off, and how long you may expect to do so. Then keep in touch. Many people suggest saying they have symptoms / are otherwise ill / isolating which in most cases would be accepted but we do have safeguarding responsibilities and do need to follow up by phone / sometimes a home visit so it is just so much easier and more pleasant all round if we can be honest on both sides. I have been advocating to schools on behalf of parents concerned about covid since September and I am far more likely to put my best effort into this on a parents behalf if I don't realise that someone has been dishonest. I would say to you all that the vast majority of schools and their staff are entirely reasonable and understanding and while they may not feel able to authorise absence they will at least understand your concerns . We are in the middle of a scary badly managed pandemic after all.

I would also suggest talking to your LA if the school appears unsupportive or won't authorise absence and you are ECV in your family. We are actually here to help despite not being liked much as a profession.

Re fines yes in theory it's possible. Much misconception about fines but they are actually an opportunity to pay a fixed penalty notice to avoid prosecution for the offence of non school attendance. So like a speeding fine it's an offer to pay a fine instead of prosecution. Anyone is free to make the decision not to pay and to go to court instead, to have your case heard by impartial magistrates.

Of course the prosecution costs us plenty of money and resources, we have to prove they are in the public interest and I doubt many unpaid fines at the height of a pandemic would probably be thought justifiable to prosecute. No guarantees obviously.

But if it was my child, and I was medically vulnerable and chose for them not to go to school and was then fined, I'd absolutely not pay and have my case heard in court if the LA managed to even get a prosecution approved and heard. That's what I'd do.

You all have to make the best decision for your family but please be honest with the school, talk to them and then talk to the LA.

anonymous1020 · 01/01/2021 21:21

For what it's worth I personally have only issued one fine since September, not covid related. My 'moral' position at the moment is that as long as it seems reasonable genuine, I would be refusing to issue fines in the current circumstances because I just don't believe it's right.

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