keeping primary kids home - best way to avoid a fine?

[dreamsofholidays]

Local primaries are open, I'm CV and don't trust this government to make sensible decisions about the safety of schools. In my assessment, the biggest risk to our family in the short-term is losing a parent rather than missing some weeks of school. But I would like to avoid the stress and expense of being fined - I get very anxious of being 'in trouble' with school! What's the best way to avoid a fine - do I (a) write to the head honestly (b) say household has covid symptoms and string that out for a bit or (c) something else? Also, how much would fines be - is it per child? Per day? Per week?

distasteful

 ok @FamilyOfAliens. I think we're on very different pages, people's priorities are keeping themselves and families safe. And not having to pay fines for that decision. Nothing 'distasteful' in that.

London primaries shut till 18th.

Now into the rest of tier 4.

@dreamsofholidays

You must think the head teacher is very unintelligent for them to believe someone suddenly has to start isolating precisely at the point when their children have to be back in school. And that no other parents will try the exact same thing.

I don't think head teachers are unintelligent, but it isn't a priority that they believe me, just that they don't feel they have to fine me / take our school places away. I imagine others might feel the same?

Do you know your HTs position on everything that’s happening? Would they be reasonable if you were upfront.

At my DCs school the HT is fully aware that some families are not being 100% truthful. She is happy the let this go (unofficially ) as long as she dosnt have any safeguarding concerns and the children are doing a reasonable amount of learning. She fully understands their concerns but can’t approve absences because of them. So parents saying they have to isolate or a child is unwell makes things a lot easier as short of accusing the parents of lying what else could she do other than flag them to the LA which wouldn’t achieve anything.

There is absolutely no desire to put pressure on parents or have them fined for unauthorised absences from the school either.

I know not all schools feel this way though.

You can say your child is unwell or has to isolate with out having them lie. My DCs wake up though the night all the time and are oblivious to it the next day. Just tell them that when you went to check on them that they were running a fever through the night so now they have to isolate. They would be none the wiser.

Personally I’d tell my DCs if I was keeping them home and why. Like you Id want them to know I don’t approve of the governments position.

I’m happy to send my DCs to school as I know how much work has gone into the safeguarding of the children and know that most if not all the parents at the school have been very good at following the rules from day one. Although we are tier 4 there haven’t been any cases in our local school community for months. If this was to change it would be completely different and I would happily call in sick for them without a second thought.

I’m not sure how much I believe a school could pull a child’s place for unauthorised absence. There would have to be a whole process to go though to do this. I’d say it’s a threat the school is using to keep its parents in line.

The blind adherence to The Rules and lectures about "lies" and "distasteful" behaviour is baffling and hard to stomach tbh bearing in mind the to-ing and fro-ing and indecision of those in authority. This is a fluid situation, it's changing every day. We have to be proactive and protect ourselves and our families too. We cannot passively and slavishly wait to be told what to do. It's dangerous.

Alice good post.

Hmm sure I agree!!

@BettyAndVeronica

distasteful

 ok @FamilyOfAliens. I think we're on very different pages, people's priorities are keeping themselves and families safe. And not having to pay fines for that decision. Nothing 'distasteful' in that.

Have you deliberately misread my post?

I said the decision to lie about having symptoms of a disease from which so many people have died is distasteful.

Not that people trying to keep themselves and their families safe is distasteful.

Not sure about different pages, you sound like you’ve read a completely different post to mine.

I’d say you’re all isolating as you’re ECV. Not a lie, gives them something to enter under “reasons for absence” when reporting. No fine if you’re isolating.

I said the decision to lie about having symptoms of a disease from which so many people have died is distasteful.

No that still doesn't work. Keeping yourself and your children safe is not and never could be distasteful.

No that still doesn't work. Keeping yourself and your children safe is not and never could be distasteful

You misread again. Not sure I can help you with this. Or be bothered to try.

You could speak to the school, Gavin Williamson was asked this very question on prosecuting parents during an interview I think on LBC. This was the day after the announcements. His response was the usual get kids in school, he did however say it is at the schools discretion. I have also seen on other advice sites that if one of the parents is vulnerable the school shouldn’t penalise parents for this. Basically depends on how understanding you think the head is there.

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/andrew-castle/gavin-williamson-refuses-to-rule-out-prosecutions-for-keeping-kids-at-home/?fbclid=IwAR2aJMrnhYsWfoR2qlp0lSJrXAPI6QU19DF0JT8I0rRoDEpbpEs_dKSWhWY

No, I understand you completely. You're saying that because people have died that OP should not say that the family are self isolating because of possible exposure or that they have symptoms, because it's distasteful to do so.

You're wrong it isn't distasteful or wrong in any way. To judge and label a very vulnerable person protecting herself and her family and then her children's subsequent education as you have is though abs shows you are rigid of thinking and clearly slavish to an authority that at times seem to have no clue what they're doing. I judge that far more than I judge a harmless untruth that protects multiple people.

@HmmSureJan

No, I understand you completely. You're saying that because people have died that OP should not say that the family are self isolating because of possible exposure or that they have symptoms, because it's distasteful to do so.

You're wrong it isn't distasteful or wrong in any way. To judge and label a very vulnerable person protecting herself and her family and then her children's subsequent education as you have is though abs shows you are rigid of thinking and clearly slavish to an authority that at times seem to have no clue what they're doing. I judge that far more than I judge a harmless untruth that protects multiple people.

I think you may have done more than a little projecting there.

If you read the OP, you’ll see she specifically asks if she should speak to the head; lie and say her household has symptoms of a disease that has killed thousands; or something else.

The fact you conflate keeping her family safe with just one of those three options, ignoring the two others, suggests it might not be me whose thinking is rigid.

Be honest with school.

There is a specific code for Covid related absence which doesn't impact on attendance or being fined.

If you feel they need to isolate because of contact/ vulnerability say so and this delays the problem.

Schools know parents are scared but they have a duty to ensure a child is safe and therefore they need info.

Engage with school. They are likely concentrating on the children who have been off since September?

ALL primary schools in London will close for new term
mol.im/a/9105059

It is really rare to fine for under 2 weeks off. It is also the LA that issues it rather than the head. I'd either go with covid symptoms or just be honest. I taught for 14 years and all the fines I ever saw were for for holidays of 2w+ usually if attendance was poor anyway.

Sure, you can backtrack now if you like. But we all know what you said, first you gave the OP misinformation about fines, which would make her fearful about taking that route and then you lectured OP on how wrong it was to lie and said:-

I think when it comes to asking your DC to lie it’s very much black and white. And to lie about having symptoms of a disease from which so many people have died seems especially distasteful.

The responses to you were it is not distasteful to lie under the circumstances and that of the options it could an easier and acceptable one that would protect her child's school place and reduce the risk of fines while hurting no one. You are saying that if you doesn't do it the way you have decided is acceptable then she will be acting wrongly and "distastefully".

Personally I think you should stop trying to shame people for perfectly harmless behaviour, which actively protects themselves and their family.

You would have to ask your children to collude in the lie and that’s not great parenting

They dont have to have any involement whatsoever. Its unlikely they will be interrogated upon return, and even if they do let slip I highly doubt the teacher will be that bothered. If anything liken the teacher I know they will be glad of one less kid in the class.

I also remember a journalist asking a very specific question on the other days 5pm briefing. They asked Boris is parents are legally required to bring their kids to school if open. His answer was the usual woffle about schools being safe and that yes they should. He did not inplicitly state it being a legal requirement.

@HmmSureJan

Sure, you can backtrack now if you like. But we all know what you said, first you gave the OP misinformation about fines, which would make her fearful about taking that route and then you lectured OP on how wrong it was to lie and said:-

I think when it comes to asking your DC to lie it’s very much black and white. And to lie about having symptoms of a disease from which so many people have died seems especially distasteful.

The responses to you were it is not distasteful to lie under the circumstances and that of the options it could an easier and acceptable one that would protect her child's school place and reduce the risk of fines while hurting no one. You are saying that if you doesn't do it the way you have decided is acceptable then she will be acting wrongly and "distastefully".

Personally I think you should stop trying to shame people for perfectly harmless behaviour, which actively protects themselves and their family.

Cherry picking posts is never a good look.

Yes I said I thought it was per day but when someone pointed out that it couldn’t be, I agreed.

What you’re doing to a saying only one of the options the OP suggested she might do is “keeping herself and her family safe”.

That’s not what she said.

Plenty of people have said don’t lie, just speak to the school, but only you have latched onto my use of the word “distasteful” to describe pretending to have symptoms of a disease that’s killed thousands to infer that I think looking out for your family’s safety is distasteful.

Twisting words doesn’t even cover it.

Say the child is self isolating as a close contact of someone positive.
You will still be able to go out to excersise and shop.
No need to mention illness or symptoms.
That will buy 10 days and I think they will be closed by then anyway.

@Dawnlassie

You would have to ask your children to collude in the lie and that’s not great parenting

They dont have to have any involement whatsoever. Its unlikely they will be interrogated upon return, and even if they do let slip I highly doubt the teacher will be that bothered. If anything liken the teacher I know they will be glad of one less kid in the class.

You could well be right that the teacher won’t mind.

But with this pandemic I’ve read countless posts on here where people ask whether they should shop their neighbours, friends and even family to the police for breaking covid rules.

You don’t get that with a child being taken out of school to go on holiday.

How disgusting that parents are being put in this terrible position

Twisting words doesn’t even cover it.

says you!

You do understand that some people just disagree with your stance don't you and you cannot shame them into submission? Look I am not even reading half of your lengthy self defensive posts. Just stop trying to shame and frighten posters for discussing perfectly reasonable options, just because they don't happen to fit your personal, punitive, moral code and you won't get tackled on it in a way your clearly don't like to be. Let's leave it there shall we?