Our (primary) head says kids can only have place (London Borough with schools shut) if there are two keyworker parents not one.

[AdmiralButterfly]

Is this legal? I thought school or council had to find school place if one parent a keyworker. A doctor friend explained this to me in lockdown one that if they didn’t have school place the other parent would be doing it 24 hours a day as the doctor parent needs to sleep after their shift not take over childcare.

No, no way to make it work for all. But let’s be real about it. People will make decisions based on their family’s circumstances. If they feel it will jeopardise the higher earners prospects (and they are in a better position to judge this), they won’t do it. And that is understandable. And whilst shutting schools is meant to stop the spread, I don’t think a consequence is meant to be a shortage of staff in the nhs/schools etc!

Separately a lot of employers will not furlough - the work may be there still and the publication of those using the scheme puts them off. Their solution is to ask their staff to find a solution (maybe sleeping less to fit it all in!). Our family’s solution works for us, but not optimal for the healthcare sector and society. We won’t be alone in that I suspect.

Feel for the teachers too. If they end up making the same decisions, I feel for the students too! I understand why they have the rule, it’s just that all need to be aware consequences (which may affect them) will flow from it. And the solution is not just to say the non key worker can step up. It’s not always possible - and I’ve already done it once and it nearly broke me.

@AdmiralButterfly
Totally normal practice in the first lockdown and only what all single parents have to do.

People will make decisions based on their family’s circumstances. If they feel it will jeopardise the higher earners prospects (and they are in a better position to judge this), they won’t do it. And that is understandable.

Yes, people will, yes it’s understandable, I guess, but I find it massively annoying when people say they “can’t” because the higher earner’s job is “so inflexible”. Women ask for flex for caring responsibilities all the time - and it’s how they end up in lower-paid, lower valued careers and jobs. That then lead them to this self-fulfilling prophecy. If the higher earners push back a bit - within the law, within their rights as working parents, with sensible, business-specific and well considered proposals to their employers - things change. For the vast majority of people, the lower earner doesn’t even work full time, so with just a bit of flex on the part of the full time higher earner it’s possible to keep both jobs and do them well. But as it’s mostly men needing to ask their make employers, it doesn’t happen. I find it extremely irritating.

But as it’s mostly men needing to ask their male employers

It depends on demand. If there are a lot of parents wanting care then the criteria would have to be tightened. The idea is that there are as few children in school as possible.

It will totally depend upon the staffing at the school, how many EHCP/V children they have etc. Schools have run out of supply budget for the year already, so they’re having to make tricky decisions.

In the first lockdown we offered places to two key worker families and SEN/V first, then luckily were able to accommodate one key worker families due to staff being mainly healthy and under 50. The main barrier was our own childcare issues, e.g. grandparent childcare banned, nurseries not accepting children of teachers etc.

@AdmiralButterfly

Yes true *@Strictly1*. Whole school closure idea is terrible imo for this v reason

Really? So you'd rather cram all the classrooms full and risk your child getting Covid? Some people need to give their heads a bloody good wobble.

I think the idea is, if there's only one keyworker parent that the other parent takes the parental leave to have the kids. Much the same as if a single parent is not a key worker they'd have to take the time off or make other arrangements

@hungrywalrus

It’s not so black and white. I’ve heard enough tales of children falling out of windows during lockdown, due to insufficient supervision and that has been borne out in the statistics. That’s on top of the obvious safeguarding risks. No easy decisions here.

Slightly off topic but "children falling out of windows" is actually neglect and could happen without a pandemic and should not be seen as caused by a pandemic.

@NoSquirrels

People will make decisions based on their family’s circumstances. If they feel it will jeopardise the higher earners prospects (and they are in a better position to judge this), they won’t do it. And that is understandable.

Yes, people will, yes it’s understandable, I guess, but I find it massively annoying when people say they “can’t” because the higher earner’s job is “so inflexible”. Women ask for flex for caring responsibilities all the time - and it’s how they end up in lower-paid, lower valued careers and jobs. That then lead them to this self-fulfilling prophecy. If the higher earners push back a bit - within the law, within their rights as working parents, with sensible, business-specific and well considered proposals to their employers - things change. For the vast majority of people, the lower earner doesn’t even work full time, so with just a bit of flex on the part of the full time higher earner it’s possible to keep both jobs and do them well. But as it’s mostly men needing to ask their make employers, it doesn’t happen. I find it extremely irritating.

I am the higher Warner, my job also ironically offers the most flexibility too. My husband works in a male arena, none of his colleagues or bosses can comprehend he has a wife who earns more, or even works.

Problem is, in this country, it often takes two salaries to survive.

*earner

DCs school was operating at close to 40% capacity with a policy of two keyworker parents last time (lots of NHS staff, social workers, carehome and education workers). If they had been saying one keyworker parent, I reckon they'd have been nearly full

But that’s my point Hancock. How is it that when women are the higher earners their jobs magically have more flex, but the equivalent male positions seemingly don’t. In my experience, the higher you go, the more flexibility you have, not less.

I think it depends on the job. My DH’s job is honestly very inflexible - and he is self employed so it’s not a case of asking for flexibility. Mine is not. But it’s already taken a hit from my having flexibility when the kids were smaller. I’m not risking it by asking for the same flexibility again.
I suspect any men who are higher earners are thinking they may be first in line when the recession hits - and if they are higher earners that is too risky for their families. Whereas key workers are (generally) able to have much more job security - so will be the ones cutting down in those circs.

And to be honest even if flexibility could be had on both sides, our school have said a normal ‘live’ timetable will apply. A teacher only able to do half the English classes due to flexing around their non key worker spouse who can’t do it all is going to have unhappy parents I suspect.

@NoSquirrels

But that’s my point Hancock. How is it that when women are the higher earners their jobs magically have more flex, but the equivalent male positions seemingly don’t. In my experience, the higher you go, the more flexibility you have, not less.

I only have flexibility through longevity of service and working my absolute ass off, twice as hard sometimes as my childless colleagues, who are mainly female

@Elvesaremagic

In Scotland, two specialised, very high pressure, non-key worker roles with no furlough opportunities (the employer would have to find someone else to employ for the period who had the v niche skills - not easy), and neither of us prepared or financially able to simply resign. Split shift from hell for months, totally exhausted, then Nicola decides she would do ‘blended learning’ (in school one day a week) for another year! And they wondered why they got more emails of complaint than pretty much any other subject. Just because we are not key workers doesn’t mean we are at the very limits of what is physically and psychologically possible every time they decide to close schools.

This but in England. Non key workers but hugely busy jobs - massively impacted by the pandemic. In my case - and a blip of the system - all of the people I work with our key workers and they are paid to engage with me so I am expected to be around pretty much 24/7. I normally do 12-14 hours a day work without breaks and am very resilient with a DH who pulls his half. But it's just not possible again - our after school nanny has agreed to up her hours which I accept is a massive help but I think I would be sectioned without it

Apologies if this has been stated further up the thread but this is the case across Scotland. No school places in January (first week at least) unless both parents are key workers.

@Erictheavocado

I don't think our school has specified that both parents have to be kw, however, it has been made very clwar that, unlike lockdown 1, this time we are not offering flexible childcare. This time, we are offering an education and therefore parents cannot pick and choose whether to send their children on a day to day basis. Parents have been told they will need to show evidence they are kw. We will also be offering inline lessons and work, as well as packs for those without access to technology. I think parents and children will notice a big difference between the spring lockdown and this one.

I work part time and DH full time. Our school have been grateful that we told them which days our primary child can stay home so they can offer it to others. I don’t think your head’s mindset is the same as all schools. Ours wants anyone part time to declare that so that the most children can get support. Would be daft to send mine in when I’m not working meaning another KW family can’t.

I don’t know if you’re agreeing or disagreeing with me Hancock - I think working mothers usually do work twice as hard in order to get flexibility and repay that flexibility with loyalty than working fathers.

I know everyone’s situation is individual Tentacles but at a societal level men are just much much less willing to sort out their careers to have flexibility. Usually, fuck all changes in their lives once children come along. They’ve never planned that it might, not in the way women do. This pandemic is highlighting that in an unpleasant way. Women are in positions where they feel they cannot demand equality of access to uninterrupted work in the same way men do - mostly because life has been structured that way pre-pandemic without it being a massive big deal. I’ve lost respect for any blokes who won’t do their part to ask their employers to take some of the strain, regardless of their position as higher earner/inflexible career/tricky boss etc

Maybe I’ve been lucky in that I’ve mostly worked for female bosses who get it. And I’d never go to them and ask for consideration of my childcare issues if my children’s partner wasn’t doing the same/absolutely as much as they could to equal the hit. I just couldn’t have that discussion.

Surely as a parent you childproof the windows so that children can’t fall out? Unless You never sleep, go to the loo, answer the door, move more than 1/2 metre away from them they are a risk which needs child proofing.

@BungleandGeorge

Surely as a parent you childproof the windows so that children can’t fall out? Unless You never sleep, go to the loo, answer the door, move more than 1/2 metre away from them they are a risk which needs child proofing.

What??

hungrywalrus
It’s not so black and white. I’ve heard enough tales of children falling out of windows during lockdown, due to insufficient supervision and that has been borne out in the statistics. That’s on top of the obvious safeguarding risks.

Just got confirmation my kids have got a place at school so very relieved. Though it’s very ironic that mine have to go in so I can look after other people’s kids so they can work.