Our (primary) head says kids can only have place (London Borough with schools shut) if there are two keyworker parents not one.

[AdmiralButterfly]

Is this legal? I thought school or council had to find school place if one parent a keyworker. A doctor friend explained this to me in lockdown one that if they didn’t have school place the other parent would be doing it 24 hours a day as the doctor parent needs to sleep after their shift not take over childcare.

@Itsnotlikethiswithotherpeople

Schools will vary in what they allow because

-of staffing differences (lots of young teachers in their 20s versus a high proportion of older of otherwise vulnerable staff)

-demand. If you live right near a hospital it will be harder to get a place

• attitude of the headteacher

None of these are particularly fair but it means comparing one family’s ‘not allowed a place’ with another in a different area isn’t particularly helpful. Your child not being allowed one isn’t because your cousin’s sisters’ son did.

Don’t forget that families with key workers may have other reasons too such as children without ECHPs who have special needs that the school consider need a place.

The other factor that OP mentions is if the children being at home means they can’t do their jobs. Say you work for a charity giving CBT to people with depression on behalf of the NHS, it doesn’t matter if your husband is a SAHD if you have reception age twins. It would be very hard to offer those vulnerable people proper care. No amount of supervision will stop 5 year olds from being noisy at any time in the day.

You first points may be why my DD was offered a place despite me working from home. Lots of 20-something teachers, a smallish town with no proper hospital and the sort of school that send a newsletter home every week which celebrates which class had the highest attendance that week.

In Scotland, two specialised, very high pressure, non-key worker roles with no furlough opportunities (the employer would have to find someone else to employ for the period who had the v niche skills - not easy), and neither of us prepared or financially able to simply resign. Split shift from hell for months, totally exhausted, then Nicola decides she would do ‘blended learning’ (in school one day a week) for another year! And they wondered why they got more emails of complaint than pretty much any other subject. Just because we are not key workers doesn’t mean we are at the very limits of what is physically and psychologically possible every time they decide to close schools.

It’s always been both parents key workers here and we were still told that if there were any days off or time when the children could stay home to do so.

Even people who aren’t key workers can have important jobs that are so difficult with childcare as well. I know huge numbers of families who have effectively worked through the night to be able to balance shifts of parenting or working. We just have to do what we can to get through right now.

I think schools / LA’s should be very clear on the distinction between safety and education. I wfh “sat in front of a computer”. DH is a key worker out of the home. I earn more.

My year 5 child can stay at home and be safe. We don’t need a key worker place for childcare. However I do not have the employment flexibility to get involved in homeschooling. I just don’t. So there will be no homeschooling, unless DS can cobble something together on his own.

The LA / schools can’t have it both ways. If we don’t get a key worker space (as only one parent is a KW) then fine, year 5 child will stay at home. But don’t pretend the non key worker has 3+ hours free per day to get to grips with KS2, or that I can take unpaid time off because paying the mortgage is unimportant. Who’s going to house us if we’re repossessed??

I don't think our school has specified that both parents have to be kw, however, it has been made very clwar that, unlike lockdown 1, this time we are not offering flexible childcare. This time, we are offering an education and therefore parents cannot pick and choose whether to send their children on a day to day basis. Parents have been told they will need to show evidence they are kw. We will also be offering inline lessons and work, as well as packs for those without access to technology. I think parents and children will notice a big difference between the spring lockdown and this one.

As a single working mother and sole financial provider of a reception age child I’m sorry to say I don’t have that much sympathy for people complaining about this.
The fewer children at school, the less circulation of the virus.
Sorry if this is insensitive. I know It’s really not easy and extremely stressful for everyone with kids.

I’m not sure it’s that simple though. If the key worker is the lower earner, many I know will have to make the difficult decision not to work for their family’s finances. And when that hits what the nhs can do - it affects all of us

My sibling is a teacher, but her partner can work from home and is not a KW, however a four day a week teacher at lower level of pay will not cover the living costs, so her partner has to work. Not a job can do with a pre schooler, and two in infants. So my sibling is going to have to ask for unpaid leave - which means her class will have no teacher for home learning or for KW. It nearly broke them last time mentally and now her partner’s job is at risk he cannot work short hours. Mentally they need that income and stability.

I can work from home but not help them with childcare as I need to work and will get no childcare place either.

Am KW, husband own business. Children were neglected if at home as he needs to work as my wage, even though I am a manager doesn’t pay the bills. We didn’t send in last lockdown but DD didn’t get any help with schooling because we couldn’t help and it was exhausting. At the end of the day I don’t have the energy to start schooling, getting a decent meal is more important.

Fairness is an interesting discussion. Should I do what's fair for my family/DCs or what's fair for other peoples?

I'm head of of large secondary school department and earn a lot more than my partner (non-KW). DCs cannot be left alone. However, we can afford for me to take unpaid leave and I would rather my partner be able to continue working from home to support future/career.

If DC doesn't get a KW place, I might take unpaid leave to look after DC, which means I'm not there to teach 80 odd year 11s in my own classes and support the whole department.

Is it fair? Probably not if you're the family of those year 11s. Equally, is it fair my partner tries to work from home leaving DCs on their own or takes leave affecting their future work? Some would say that's selfish/manipulating the system, not doing it for the greater good - but what about the good of mine own children?

@RhubarbFizz

My sibling is a teacher, but her partner can work from home and is not a KW, however a four day a week teacher at lower level of pay will not cover the living costs, so her partner has to work. Not a job can do with a pre schooler, and two in infants. So my sibling is going to have to ask for unpaid leave - which means her class will have no teacher for home learning or for KW. It nearly broke them last time mentally and now her partner’s job is at risk he cannot work short hours. Mentally they need that income and stability.

I can work from home but not help them with childcare as I need to work and will get no childcare place either.

Speak to the school! Schools shouldn’t be rigidly applying 2 key worker rule against common sense.

I have a DH who is a keyworker but who is self employed. His industry was shut down from earnings potential last time round whilst still asked to triage for free to keep pressure from the nhs. As a straight forward sole trader, who earned over the 50k cap, he (along with a huge number of others in his sector) received no financial help. our school has a policy of one key worker. I am not putting my own career at risk for a society that did not value my DH’s industry last time. If he is less available and increased pressure on the NHS A&E , that is just the way it will be.

But @Itsnotlikethiswithotherpeople the school cannot also just make exceptions for teachers - if they want them in - lots of my friends are gps in the same position. Pretty sure the whole school community would like them to work! Surely it should be 1 key worker but priority given to two?

Just a quick question, why can't you do the home schooling or checking the kids have done their work, after you have finished work? Kids of a certain age don't need hand holding 24/7 do they, they certainly don't get that at school. Just check your child has completed their work. I know it's hard but having a child is hard.

@emilybrontescorsett our primary requires them logged on at specific times and then work to be completed and uploaded that day, or it gets recorded as an unauthorised absence (yes, this is in KS1 too). Do you have younger primary aged kids?

Last time as well it was impossible to pick up work later in the evening- kids go to bed at 7 and are knackered and I was working at the weekend as well to catch up. Not feasible.

@emilybrontescorsett - not sure if that question is directed at me? I have primary school aged kids. They may not need 24/7 handholding but they generally don’t wait for 3 hours for their teacher to get off a conference call. Plus we tried this last time. My kids went back significantly behind those who were able to spend the time during the day with them - tired parents and children in the evening were not a good combination! I’m not willing to do it again and so we as a family have a solution which will work for us if our kids cannot get a place. I know many others who will have to make the same choice. Collectively it is a shame it won’t be optimal for society, but I guess it’s a natural consequence of decisions made such as 2 key workers only.

@Lemons1571
The LA / schools can’t have it both ways

Not the school or LA, both trying to make ineffective, impractical government guidance work.

My school is also sticking to the single keyworker parent or both key worker parents places. But they will also use common sense such as a night shift worker needing sleep. Has a two parent one keyworker household with a sensible reason for needing a keyworker place actually had one refused?

We had a questionnaire to fill out accompanied by very clear guidance that only two key worker children would be permitted in school.

No I'm quite glad my dc are older, although that has brought other problems such as ds being sacked as his employer couldn't afford to furlough him and certainly couldn't pay him during lockdown. It was a genuine question as I really don't know how it works. I can say I am so glad I left my job working in education and feel very sorry for my old work colkeagues, plenty of whom are leaving to find jobs in other sectors.
I just wondered if you could do the work at any time that's all.
There aren't any magical solutions. I don't know what the answer is. Everyone, well, let's be honest not everyone, but every 'ordinary working person' is suffering. The government have handled this totally wrong and should have closed schools earlier but head teachers were threatened with legal action if they did so now we have it worse.
Worth noting Eton has been closed a long time but then again those types of people will just expect their staff to do the job.

our primary requires them logged on at specific times and then work to be completed and uploaded that day, or it gets recorded as an unauthorised absence (yes, this is in KS1 too).

How ridiculous. You can blame the people who moaned that if their children weren't plugged in permanently between 9 and 3, they "weren't getting any education". This is exactly why we don't do this.

It was the same at our school and you had to be on shoft to claim your place. The point is to minimize people on site to reduce numbers mixing. This is why furlough was extended to allow childcare issues to be a reason for staff to be furlough. Furlough has been extended.

Our local authority is the same. I can see why they are doing it though. Otherwise there is no point in closing the schools

There’s no way to make it work for every possible permutation of family set-up and employment.

The expectation should be that IF you can work from home, in whatever job, and have a partner who can also work from home, in whatever job, that both employers and employees are flexible to a degree. People unwilling to ask the higher earner to “jeopardise” their job by asking for a degree of flexibility as a working parent in a pandemic are part of the problem. It’s not all or nothing. The lower earner doesn’t need to give up their job entirely if the higher earner negotiates at least a little flex. But many many many people are just unwilling to even ask.

Schools can’t be open for all children right now and it sucks for everyone. If there’s two parents in the family then if someone can be at home it seems fair enough that school doesn’t give a place. Temporary solutions can be reduced hours (for both parents, regardless of ‘status’ or earnings), flexible work patterns, whatever. It’s absolutely shit for all of us working parents. It’s practically harder for some, downright unsafe for others (that’s where schools need to step in) and inconvenient, exhausting, emotionally challenging, stress inducing and financially risky for all of us.

Well teachers are caught in this as well.

We have teachers at my secondary school who can’t get a KW space at primary as the assumption is they are working from home and so can teach their online lessons and well as sorting out their own primary/nursery kids.

So it is the same for all.