I fucking knew it. Second vaccine dose.

[NiceGerbil]

News is that people who have had first dose are only getting second 3 months later. Against the guidelines of the org who made the vaccine.

I said this rush to push it out would result in, how are they going to follow up and make sure they get the second?

And here we go. Second dose not organised. UK govt say this is AOK.

FFS. I'd rather they took the time to do it properly. But hey. Pissup in a brewery situation again.

I said a few days ago to DH. Are they properly tracking this to make sure the follow up jab isn't missed?

I was too optimistic. Govt have decided second jab isn't that important.

FFS.

@Iseestupidpeople

Just wow to some of those responses. It’s like you don’t understand that the 1st dose is pointless without the 2nd dose. And some failure that couldn’t even finish school without his daddy paying for it clearly can’t make an informed decision over riding a contingent of scientists! There is a reason for the gap being 2 weeks not 1 not 8 not 12 but 2. And they don’t even know if you can have the other vaccine after the Pfizer one as no trials or tests have been done, that’s all just theory so far and even then they theorise 12 months in between at least.

Judging by this factual incorrect post when you see stupid people you are looking in the mirror

@helpIhateclothesshopping

Apparently the hospital where my husband works haven't even kept a proper record of who they have vaccinated so far. The Astra Zeneca vaccine is much cheaper so that's why they are moving across to using it instead.

That sounds like how hospitals run vaccinations programs

Yes the oxford is cheaper but the main reason to move over to it is not price. We can get 2 million doses a week starting middle of January. It is less fragile to store and move. This means it can go to residential homes, GPs and well anywhere.

I reckon you know all this already don't you. It has been all over the press for weeks.

I've not read the whole thread. But what I gather is that the first dose makes you 70% protected and I can see what they'd prefer to get more people up to that level rather than a few to a higher % rate.

Oh I see now literally everyone saying the same

@Horehound

Oh I see now literally everyone saying the same

It is ok. I think a thousand people could say the same and some posters would still not listen

IMO they should focus on the most vulnerable groups first and give all of them them the 2nd jab after 3 weeks. The most vulnerable group haven't all had the first jab yet, none of the most vulnerable groups have all had the first jab. Could we get the first jabs done before we fret about the 2nd dose?

There are over 3 million over 80s in the UK, they have done about 1 million vaccinations and they haven't all gone to over 80s by a long chalk let alone care home staff, NHS staff or the ECV.

@Iseestupidpeople

Just wow to some of those responses. It’s like you don’t understand that the 1st dose is pointless without the 2nd dose. And some failure that couldn’t even finish school without his daddy paying for it clearly can’t make an informed decision over riding a contingent of scientists! There is a reason for the gap being 2 weeks not 1 not 8 not 12 but 2. And they don’t even know if you can have the other vaccine after the Pfizer one as no trials or tests have been done, that’s all just theory so far and even then they theorise 12 months in between at least.

@Iseestupidpeople - I mean, you couldn’t even get some basic facts correct in your short post fgs! Stop looking in the mirror and then maybe you could change your user name.

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum - ha, just reached the end and saw your post!

Can’t understand some of the reasoning here. My mum is ECV - I would much rather she got the first dose only, thereby ensuring that the same amount of people in her position were afforded the same raised level of protection vs no protection at all. This site has really shown how selfish people can be.

[quote Furries]@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum - ha, just reached the end and saw your post!

Can’t understand some of the reasoning here. My mum is ECV - I would much rather she got the first dose only, thereby ensuring that the same amount of people in her position were afforded the same raised level of protection vs no protection at all. This site has really shown how selfish people can be.[/quote]
Lol, snap!

My mother inlaw had her first jab before Christmas. It was such a relief. We don't think she will get the second now but most the protection is after the first jab. So that will do for now. Better more people get the opportunity to have it.

I think getting one dose out to more people will provide more benefits as a whole. But I'm concerned that the red tape will prevent speedy vaccination as people I know who are willing to become vaccinators are having to jump through hoops. Let's face it, no one will have time to spot a potential radicalisation but agree all vaccinators need to know what to do for anaphylaxis

Ireland are also looking at this strategy of longer gap between jabs resulting in more people vaccinated. I bet other countries decide the same too. It’s a good idea ( whether it came from tony Blair or not )

@ChelleMum85

Uh no....that's not what it says.

The 2nd type of vaccine (The Oxford vaccine) can be taken as the 2nd dose to the Pfizer vaccine, 12 weeks after the 1st shot. They work well together to provide a more potent defense. You're already 55% covered already. Calm down.

Have they done clinical trails to assess this? Source please.

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum - great news that she’s had her first dose already, definitely must have been a feeling of relief. Hope she’s doing ok. I know it’s hard for everyone, total shit show all round, but for the ECV to often feel so isolated, and then for those who try to provide the help they can (such as food shopping etc) to also be worrying about passing it on is not easy.

Surely those who are saying it's fine, you are missing the point. Phizer who made the initial vaccine have said there is no evidence to say it will be effect I've with one dose and the second MUST be given in a 4 week window!
The Oxford vaccine fair enough, 70% efficacy at one dose
Best in mind those health care professionals who have been vaccinated with phizer are now unwilling non consented guinea pigs swinging in the wind and at massive risk. It's reprehensible and what the f do we do when those health care professionals start dropping like flies, we already are massively undervalued and treated appallingly by those in charge of the NHS, it's flipping criminal. Cried real tears tonight at the thought of being in work and being so at risk, it feels like someone just ripped the carpet out from us again, it's honestly heartbreaking

@Borisisafecklesstoad

Surely those who are saying it's fine, you are missing the point. Phizer who made the initial vaccine have said there is no evidence to say it will be effect I've with one dose and the second MUST be given in a 4 week window! The Oxford vaccine fair enough, 70% efficacy at one dose Best in mind those health care professionals who have been vaccinated with phizer are now unwilling non consented guinea pigs swinging in the wind and at massive risk. It's reprehensible and what the f do we do when those health care professionals start dropping like flies, we already are massively undervalued and treated appallingly by those in charge of the NHS, it's flipping criminal. Cried real tears tonight at the thought of being in work and being so at risk, it feels like someone just ripped the carpet out from us again, it's honestly heartbreaking

Feel so bad for Health and Social Care staff. Is there any way to protest that you only consented based not he data from the clinical testing, and would not have consented had you known they were going to do it differently to the manufactures recommendations? I think that anyone who was given the vaccine prior to the announcement should have the 21 days honoured.

The oxford is cheaper but the main reason to move over to it is not price. We can get 2 million doses a week starting middle of January ... It has been all over the press for weeks

So was Hancock's assurance that millions of doses would be in place by September, so it'll be interesting to see if the "January" comment is any more credible

Matt Hancock doesn’t personally make the vaccines you know. He is relying on the manufacturers timelines.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

The oxford is cheaper but the main reason to move over to it is not price. We can get 2 million doses a week starting middle of January ... It has been all over the press for weeks

So was Hancock's assurance that millions of doses would be in place by September, so it'll be interesting to see if the "January" comment is any more credible

This promise comes from the manufacturer not the government. It is a promise still obviously but lets see what happens. The roll out plans despite what the papers would have you believe are pretty good.

Matt Hancock doesn’t personally make the vaccines you know

What an odd thing to post; I don't think anyone suggested he does?

And inconveniently, the manufacturers and government have both said that the problem doesn't lie with them - or to put it another way they're each passing blame. Strange, that

Just put this on another thread.

I would think that if a second dose of the same is not available they should start again with a different vaccine and get two doses of that. Although that's not been tested either.

I think that what they haven't done is considered the ramifications. For the government to say, manufacturer instructions don't matter. One dose is really good. Mix and match. I worry that

A. It undermines the message that we all learn from young. Finish the course. Take it at this time of day. Bring your children exactly at these weeks and note in red book etc etc. Always follow the instructions. They've kind of undermined that completely and I don't think they've realised what the consequences might be

B. Anti vaxxers are v active. Making people worry. The message is out that 1 dose is pretty good. Won't that mean that many people who are a bit scared will think well I'll have 1 and that is a balance between fear and safety?

I just think what they're doing and the messages they are giving are incredibly reckless. Not much of a surprise from this government but still.

Ridiculous

@NiceGerbil
In response to your point A. A vaccination is not an antibiotic. Antibiotic resistance is a very specific process and their us no mechanism to impact anti production or T cell stimulation.
Point B. These people are very stupid. If they arrive at the decision you outline at least they have 70-90% chsnce of being protected.
I really can't think what you aim to achieve with this thread.

Well to get something off my chest and see what people think.

The average person doesn't know about different medicines and vaccines and what not. Which is why there is a simple message. Always follow the doctors advice/ advice in the packet.

It's obvious that the government message totally undermines this simple message that we all have drummed into us. It's a real worry.

The headline on the BBC about the 'race' to vaccinate and Israel are 'winning' shows up a childish mindset. Our government was keen to say. Bought most. Inoculating most. Winning!!!! Which is entirely the wrong attitude.

I was reading about the nightingale hosps earlier and why not in use. DH reminded me they were built super fast to 'beat the Chinese'. I'm not sure the one in London has ever been used. Equipment not right and not enough staff. What a waste and all for headlines.

It's all style over substance which is not ok for a pandemic.

The average person should know the difference between a vaccine and an antibiotic. It's not rocket science!
As for your other points it just seems as though you are trying to whip up a storm.
If these thoughts are actually worrying you perhaps either look into the underpinning science or try some relaxation techniques.

@NiceGerbil

Just put this on another thread.

I would think that if a second dose of the same is not available they should start again with a different vaccine and get two doses of that. Although that's not been tested either.

I think that what they haven't done is considered the ramifications. For the government to say, manufacturer instructions don't matter. One dose is really good. Mix and match. I worry that

A. It undermines the message that we all learn from young. Finish the course. Take it at this time of day. Bring your children exactly at these weeks and note in red book etc etc. Always follow the instructions. They've kind of undermined that completely and I don't think they've realised what the consequences might be

B. Anti vaxxers are v active. Making people worry. The message is out that 1 dose is pretty good. Won't that mean that many people who are a bit scared will think well I'll have 1 and that is a balance between fear and safety?

I just think what they're doing and the messages they are giving are incredibly reckless. Not much of a surprise from this government but still.

Please calm down. Why do so many people have to rage about everything.

The governnent are listening to the clinicians. They are now damned if they do and damned when they don't.

It is GPs kicking up a fuss about having to rearrange dates of second doses.

Surely it's best to vaccinate as many people with one dose to prevent more COVID admissions and potential deaths decades earlier than expected, than to ensure a 90 year old has a second dose.

Surely all lives are precious and should have some protection than just ensuring that the elderly are fully protected from COVID now so that they can die warm in their bed from old age a few weeks, months or a year or two later?