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Original poster

Criteria for closing primary schools

63 replies

Fortyfiver · 31/12/2020 09:34

Can anyone point me in the direction of the criteria the Government has used to decide in which council areas the primary schools are to close?

My DC go to school in a London Borough which is remaining open (Greenwich).

I am conflicted - on the one hand I am happy that they can continue to go to school as home learning was not easy (which I think is the experience most of us had last time!) but on the other hand are my DC being used by the government for some kind or revenge/ power play?
Greenwich unilaterally decided to close before Christmas and the government threatened them with legal action - now they are on the list of open boroughs Hmm

The class WhatsApp is going crazy with all sorts of wild ideas - I just wondered whether there is some official information I could look at?

Thank you

OP posts:
SquirmOfEels · 31/12/2020 09:35

Lambeth also not on the list, despite being surrounded by boroughs with similar rates and using the same hospitals

It makes no sense, other than a major 'oops' in proof-reading

AaronPurr · 31/12/2020 09:36

Happy to be corrected, but I don't think there's a definite criteria or point at which they must close.

In other words, they're making it up as they go along

Barbie222 · 31/12/2020 09:37

There's info on the data thread about this. I do wonder if Gav has exposed himself to criticism all round here: shouting from those who want to be out but are in, shouting from those who are out but want to be in. Also, what will happen in a couple of weeks when, let's face it, numbers won't have dropped appreciably in the worst affected regions, but have risen to match today's figures in other T4 areas? It's closure across the country by stealth to avoid having to stand up in the Commons and do it again.

RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 31/12/2020 09:37

Greenwich is being punished.

notevenat20 · 31/12/2020 09:38

Won’t it just be the current number of cases per 100k in the over 60s and the trajectory of that figure?

PlumsAreNotTheOnlyFruit · 31/12/2020 09:39

I am so miserable that my children are not able to go back to school. I cried when I found out. But yes the borough they go to school in has lower rates than some that are open. So if the government aren't publishing their criteria how will we know when they can go back? Or will they just have to stay at home for ages.

Original poster
Fortyfiver · 31/12/2020 09:40

Lewisham and Greenwich are both open and they have the main hospitals which also cover Bexley (which is closed) - one of the hospitals declared an emergency a few days ago.

It just doesn't make sense to me - areas in Kent with much lower rates are closed. Tory areas though.... Hmm

I hate feeling like there is some kind of conspiracy, I am usually a much more rational person and have followed the government advice all along but this just feels.... wrong?

OP posts:
Char2015 · 31/12/2020 09:40

One of the main reasons I keep coming across as reported by council leaders who have spoken to ministers is that one of the key factors is local hospital capacity. However, even the data regarding this doesn't support why some areas have not been included on the list. St Thomas Hospital for example is based in Southwark, but a very large number of patients admitted are Lambeth residents as Lambeth is literally next door to Southwark. I don't think they have grasped that hospitals see patients from different boroughs not just patients from their own boroughs.

newmum1976 · 31/12/2020 09:42

Think it’s based on Covid rates for the 5-9 age group.

Original poster
Fortyfiver · 31/12/2020 09:42

@char2015 same with schools - I live in a different borough but my DC go to a Greenwich school, so how do they square that circle?

OP posts:
Original poster
Fortyfiver · 31/12/2020 09:45

@newmum1976 do you know where I can find the raw data? I can see the heat map but it has all age groups in the dark purple currently

OP posts:
Char2015 · 31/12/2020 09:47

[quote Fortyfiver]@char2015 same with schools - I live in a different borough but my DC go to a Greenwich school, so how do they square that circle?[/quote]
They haven't considered that at all. They are clueless. They need to treat London as a whole like they have done throughout this pandemic. London is a very busy place, people travelling across boroughs for work, education, and school. How could Government not even factored this in. Greenwich schools should be closed. Their data is just as bad as those that are on the list. A lot of talk going on is that this is in response to the issue just before Xmas when Greenwich wanted to shut schools a few days early. I really hope Government wouldn't be so petty, but you never know with them.

AlwaysLatte · 31/12/2020 09:48

I'm curious about this too. Why are some tier 4 primary schools staying open and some not? Is it to do with hospital locations? Demographic of ages?

LarryUnderwood · 31/12/2020 09:51

We're in lewisham. Glad as I am that my dc will not be home learning while we try to work, I cannot understand how our schools are open while bromley etc are closed. It makes no sense and I fully expect that our borough and others will close schools soon too.

phlebasconsidered · 31/12/2020 09:53

@newmum1976 well that's cocked to start with then because it leaves out year 6 who are massively higher risk and furthermore I know from my own experience that they just are not being tested unless siblings or family have more severe symptoms. Both cases in my class presented as colds and they were only tested when the adults caught it off them.

We are genuinely fucked in tier 4 areas with primaries open.

AaronPurr · 31/12/2020 09:59

Both cases in my class presented as colds and they were only tested when the adults caught it off them.

Very similar story for the cases in our school as well.

Musicaldilemma · 31/12/2020 10:01

They must have followed some random criteria surely and perhaps an algorithm!...
Like rates in x age group, local hospital capacity, maybe if case numbers are rising in last x days before announcement. However, it makes no sense in London as lots of children in London travel out of borough etc.. some even at primary level.

Politicians will always have something they followed to prove their decisions as they will want to cover their backsides.

MadamFlutterby · 31/12/2020 10:02

Has an officialist been published?

MarshaBradyo · 31/12/2020 10:05

@newmum1976

Think it’s based on Covid rates for the 5-9 age group.
This makes sense. It won’t be on ‘punishment’ / Labour / Cons stuff
littlestpogo · 31/12/2020 10:09

From the outside the London decisions do look odd. I can only assume they have more data and it’s to do with rate of rise and possibly rate in children.

Not having anything published also means for those of us with schools closed we just have to wait until the 18th for the next decision point with no clue as to how that decision will be made.

starrynight19 · 31/12/2020 10:09

You can bet they won’t post the criteria anywhere so it will be up to everyone to guess.
Funny when it comes to the tier system it has to be all areas treated the same but not when it comes to this.

starrynight19 · 31/12/2020 10:10

The problem is they are so reluctant to make public any data about schools , this could be from data taken on those schools before Christmas but you would never know.

NOTANUM · 31/12/2020 10:14

I wonder if it's related to the rate of vulnerable children and/or child poverty in these areas. I know we think of Islington and Camden as being very trendy but there is also significant deprivation in a way that there isn't in some of the other boroughs.

I have no evidence for this - it's purely a hypothesis. But there must be some rationale for having some boroughs' school open as normal and others shut in a very connected city.

TolstoyAteMyHamster · 31/12/2020 10:20

I would like to see the criteria. I suspect it is not punishment, as I don’t believe even this government would do that. If it is based in part on hospital capacity then that makes no sense in London. So many hospitals sit on the boundary of boroughs - Johnson should know that as he was taken from Westminster to Thomas’s (in Lambeth) when he had COVID.

TolstoyAteMyHamster · 31/12/2020 10:22

And NOTANUM, I agree that deprivation should also be taken into account but again, boroughs aren’t homogeneous and surely Lambeth and Haringay would be more of a candidate for closure than Westminster on that basis?