Confused about Mum's 2nd Vaccination

[Icequeen01]

Just been watching the Government's Up-date but had to keep popping in and out of the room. My 81 year old mum has had her first Pfizer vaccination and was due to have her 2nd on 9th Jan. Will that now be changed to 3 months time?

No, because the delay of 12 weeks applies to the Oxford vaccine, but the Pfizer one. So if you have already started the Pfizer vaccination you should have your second dose of Pfizer and you won't need the oxford vaccine.

At least, that's what I have understood.

Sorry it should say NOTthe Pfizer one (not "but")

That's what I thought but DH disagrees. I didn't see enough of the briefing to be sure!

I understood that the Pfizer one would also be single dose then a 12 week gap, but I don't know if that applies to those who have already had their first dose.

Yes. My DH works for the NHS and they are in the process of rearranging all the appointments for 2nd vaccines.

They have decided it is better to get the 93% effectiveness out to as many people as possible with one vaccine than do the second one which only adds an extra 4%. Makes sense to me.

Thank you @Santastealer for clarifying. I agree it sounds the most sensible thing to do but I fear I am going to have trouble convincing my mum she will be safe to leave her home before she's had her second one.

Pfizer effectiveness after one shot is 52% NOT 93%.

I got that the gap had been approved for both vaccines too.
At least she got the first and she will be quite protected soon.
Congratulations!

JVT said any 2nd vaccinations for Pfizer vaccine scheduled for 4th January onwards will be delayed. My ICU consultant friend told me the first vaccine bestowed 90% effectiveness snd the second one tops up to 95%.

Now I am concerned. Is it 53% or 90% effective after first dose? If it is 53% I am really concerned. My DM lives on her own and had part of one of her lungs removed two years ago. I still won't feel safe taking her out until she has the maximum protection she can have.

For both vaccines, the gap has been extended to be given up to twelve weeks. Hancock said anyone with their second dose booked after 4th Jan will be rescheduled. Before that date, it will still go ahead. The estimates of efficacy reduce with age too, so don't get hung up on percentages.

@Icequeen01

Now I am concerned. Is it 53% or 90% effective after first dose? If it is 53% I am really concerned. My DM lives on her own and had part of one of her lungs removed two years ago. I still won't feel safe taking her out until she has the maximum protection she can have.

This might be relevant;

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4826

Surely Pfizer gives more than 52% protection after first dose. Would the one dose plan proceed on that basis. I thought I had previously seen 90%?

Thanks for the link @raspberrymilton - so it looks like it's 52% then 😢 I feel awful saying this, and I totally get it if someone tells me I am being selfish, but I'm so disappointed. I will have to break the news to DM in the morning.

A more recent study is where the 90% plus comes from
www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577
So there will hopefully be a good response to the first dose for your mum.

@raspberrymilton stop posting obsolete articles on all the threads you’re shit stirring.

@Icequeen01

Thanks for the link *@raspberrymilton* - so it looks like it's 52% then 😢 I feel awful saying this, and I totally get it if someone tells me I am being selfish, but I'm so disappointed. I will have to break the news to DM in the morning.

Its not 100% confirmed, that's just one study - this article is worth looking at too:

www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/12/18/coronavirus-vaccine-single-dose-debate

"The right answer, in other words, depends on science we haven't yet completed. For one, the protection from a single dose of Pfizer’s vaccine hasn’t been definitively tested. Scientists can only infer from the trial data that Pfizer’s vaccine would provide protective antibodies to roughly half of people who get one dose."

There are more optimistic predictions out there too.

Basically we just don't know enough yet to say for sure. I would err on the safe side. btw Its not in any way selfish to want to keep your mum safe!

But the flu vaccine only gives around 50% (If you're lucky...more like 30-40% for elderly people). Pre covid, did your mum go out after a flu jab?

@ayooplass

A more recent study is where the 90% plus comes from www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577 So there will hopefully be a good response to the first dose for your mum.

There is nothing in that study that says 90plus% after one dose. Have you read it?

[quote MyPersona]@raspberrymilton stop posting obsolete articles on all the threads you’re shit stirring.[/quote]
Shit stirring. Really? People deserve to be provided with the whole spectrum of data that's available when its relevant to their own health/the health of their families. We do not know definitively either way what protection the first dose affords. If it were my mum I'd want to know that.

The only 'obsolete' (ie possibly incorrect) statement on this thread is that a second Pfizer dose gives a further 4% protection only. For which no actual link to any study has been offered.

I also cannot see any shit stirring...

@FuzzyPuffling Yes she always has her flu jab and she has always gone out afterwards. I know I am being naive when I say I have never worried about my mum catching flu but I'm terrified of her getting Covid - especially us giving it to her.

You are right it doesn’t- sorry.
It’s the opinion of prof Salisbury at the Dof H. I believe the argument is that as immunity was tested 6 days after the second dose, the 90% is because of the first dose. As it takes time for the immune system to mount a response..
But you are correct this is unproven.

Icequeen01 I empathise with you. My dad was due his seond dose on Jan 6th. He is 86, with a lung conidtion. I am, on a personal level, now very dissappointed he will have to wait, although of course I understand that it is for the greater good, and therefor most likely the right thing to do. I am trying to tell myself that it is only an extra 9 weeks to wait.

@ayooplass

You are right it doesn’t- sorry. It’s the opinion of prof Salisbury at the Dof H. I believe the argument is that as immunity was tested 6 days after the second dose, the 90% is because of the first dose. As it takes time for the immune system to mount a response.. But you are correct this is unproven.

It is a while since I was an active microbiologist, but since in this study all cases were caught in the wild as it were, I would note that the maximum measured efficacy between doses 1 and 2 was 68.4%.

Therefore this suggested 90% in the first few days of the 2nd dose has to be compared with a maximum of 68.4% in the day(s) before the second dose.

The data does not suggest to me that 90% is achieved after only one shot.