Confused about Mum's 2nd Vaccination

[Icequeen01]

Just been watching the Government's Up-date but had to keep popping in and out of the room. My 81 year old mum has had her first Pfizer vaccination and was due to have her 2nd on 9th Jan. Will that now be changed to 3 months time?

My DM will be in the same position, she was so excited about getting it, she's barely been out since September 2019 as she had a couple of hospital stays and was only just recovering when covid hit. She lost my DF last year too and she didn't come to us for Christmas because she was going to be fully vaccinated by first week of Jan (probably wouldn't have been a huge risk as we had covid in autumn). She won't go out without a second vaccination. I can see why they'd do it but it's disappointing to give people hope then delay it again.

There was some talk about this the other day and the evidence they were using was showing it as 90.4% effective as a first vaccine. I believe this to be true

But if it means double the number of elderly are vaccinated then it should help more people not be seriously ill. Yessome people may still have a more restricted life, but hopefully in 12 weeks they will get it, whilst more people are safer.

But if it means double the number of elderly are vaccinated then it should help more people not be seriously ill. Yessome people may still have a more restricted life, but hopefully in 12 weeks they will get it, whilst more people are safer.

Of course, we can all rationalise it, but that doesn't stop people who might already be extremely vulnerable and with poor mental health feeling upset, both of these things can exist at the same time.

Disappointed too :(

I believe this to be true

I am not religious unfortunately, so I need evidence rather than belief. Even informed opinion would be better.

I'm in the same boat as some of you with my 85 year old dad, also a widower. He had his first dose yesterday and was due the second one after his next round of chemotherapy. Hopefully we will all get some reassurance soon. We're in London where rates are super scary,

I'm so pleased it's not just me feeling disappointed and really dreading telling DM tomorrow. But I do know it is for the greater good and we need to help as many people as we can.

We live next door to her and we are her support bubble but a very unsafe one (DH and I both work in schools) so we try to take as many precautions as we can but if something doesn't work in her house she just trots across to ask us to help her. She doesn't quite "get" that we/she can't just keep popping in! In some ways it has been a godsend having her next door so she doesn't feel isolated but I am struggling now with the constant worry that we could infect her.

Also meant to say we are in Kent where the numbers are absolutely terrifying.

OP, thinking of you XX

Speak to your Gp if you are worried they will have some discretion but not much.

Hmm, I've done a bit of reading and the second dose appears to be more about durability, so how long protection lasts for, and needing to boost it at the right time, so not doing this could be kicking the problem down the road. Though I think there is an optimal 3-12 week window so I guess they're banking on getting more down the line.

I heard this tonight too and felt really disappointed. My mum had her first Pfizer one before Christmas and is in a care home. They've been stuck in their rooms for over 3 weeks now and I am guessing they aren't letting them out until they've had the other jab. She's only 70 and quite able, just has mental health issues. So now I'm guessing the 2nd one will be delayed and she'll be stuck in what is like prison for God knows how long. I do understand why they are doing this but really feel for her.

I thought no it’s probably quite telling that Pfizer have distanced themselves from this decision. They seem to be quite clear that they don’t have any data that supports it.

That’s not to say it wouldn’t work, but it seems to be a bit of a gamble.

Yes, I was wondering that. I was looking for data but couldn't find anything to say the Pfizer vaccination has ever been trialled at this dosing regime, so I am a bit concerned about the overall effects, and I also can't quite understand how the change has been approved without the data to back it up. Maybe I'm missing something? But even more concerning if Pfizer don't seem happy about it either.

I happened to watch this but. As I understand it, anyone due their second dose before Monday will still have it. Anyone due their second vaccine after that will have it rebooked for within the 12 week limit.

@SillyOldMummy

No, because the delay of 12 weeks applies to the Oxford vaccine, but the Pfizer one. So if you have already started the Pfizer vaccination you should have your second dose of Pfizer and you won't need the oxford vaccine.

At least, that's what I have understood.

They’ve changed the Pfizer dosing too.

Any second jabs after January 4th are being rescheduled.

@TabbyStar

My DM will be in the same position, she was so excited about getting it, she's barely been out since September 2019 as she had a couple of hospital stays and was only just recovering when covid hit. She lost my DF last year too and she didn't come to us for Christmas because she was going to be fully vaccinated by first week of Jan (probably wouldn't have been a huge risk as we had covid in autumn). She won't go out without a second vaccination. I can see why they'd do it but it's disappointing to give people hope then delay it again.

Agreed, I started a thread about it earlier and the effect of having to wait three months on the elderly and/or CEV but apparently I was being “selfish.”

Agreed, I started a thread about it earlier and the effect of having to wait three months on the elderly and/or CEV but apparently I was being “selfish.”

Some people aren't very good at recognising that a rational response isn't particularly useful when you're dealing with emotions (except when blokes do it to women!) One of the most important things you can do with your kids is to help them name and process their feelings. We're not that different as adults. Being able to hold contradictory thoughts is a sign of maturity apparently!

The 52% figure is the average efficacy of the Pfizer vaccination in the three weeks between jab1 and jab2 in the large scale trial.

A closer study of the trial data was done by the much respected Prof David Salisbury, and he concluded that this average figure is not useful as it includes the very early days when the jab provides no protection, but the efficacy at the end - just before jab2 - is the figure that counts.

For example, if the efficacy over the days after jab1 grows according to this data set: 0;1;2;3;6;12;20;30;42;55;65;74;79;83;86;87;88;89;90;90;90 then the average is 52%, but the end result of a single jab is 90% efficacy.

So, if we have 3 million doses available by the end of January, is it best to protect 1.5 million people to 94%, or to protect 3 million people to 90%?

@jcyclops

The 52% figure is the average efficacy of the Pfizer vaccination in the three weeks between jab1 and jab2 in the large scale trial.

A closer study of the trial data was done by the much respected Prof David Salisbury, and he concluded that this average figure is not useful as it includes the very early days when the jab provides no protection, but the efficacy at the end - just before jab2 - is the figure that counts.

For example, if the efficacy over the days after jab1 grows according to this data set: 0;1;2;3;6;12;20;30;42;55;65;74;79;83;86;87;88;89;90;90;90 then the average is 52%, but the end result of a single jab is 90% efficacy.

So, if we have 3 million doses available by the end of January, is it best to protect 1.5 million people to 94%, or to protect 3 million people to 90%?

Except it isn't 90%. That is your figure pulled from your imagination.

The data itself actually shows a maximum of 68.4%. Please do not make things up.

I don't think people were meant to relax the rules after they had the vaccine, even after having the second dose.

My DM was meant to be having her second dose on 5th January, that's a bugger if the cut off is the 4th.

Pfizer vaccine has not been approved with a 12 week gap and Pfizer themselves have said this won’t work, it needs to be 3 weeks. It’s ridiculous.

You are being realistic to worry more about your elderly mother catching Covid than flu. This is because she is both much much much more likely to catch Covid this year than flu and to be more ill from Covid than flu. However that does not mean that her chances of catching Covid and/ or being very ill with it are higher than her chances of not catching it or of having a very mild case even without a vaccine.

Thus cutting her already quite low chance of getting Covid by over 50% is very helpful and should be very reassuring.

Sorry I did not mean to appear heartless. I have seen my elderly ECV parent once since March 2020, and they are still awaiting their first dose, so I understand how important it is our loved ones are safe and we can see them. My much elderly grandfather in a care home is hoping to get his first dose in January.