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If the schools close there should be no pretence that they have switched to "online learning".

428 replies

Billie18 · 29/12/2020 18:23

If the schools close they are shut. Schools are not equipped to deliver teaching online. Teachers have not been trained to teach online. Children are not equipped to learn online. The curriculum has not been designed to be taught online. If schools close then children will not be receiving an education. It is dishonest to pretend that they are.

So if the schools close then teachers should be furloughed and children's education should be paused at the point of closure. Closing schools should not be disguised as something it is not. This would allow the damage to continue indefinitely. If schools remain closed for a longer period then teachers should be made redundant so that they are free to do other work. This of course would be terrible and would hopefully not be allowed to happen... But then schools have already not been fully open for nearly a year.

OP posts:
Grace58 · 29/12/2020 19:01

During the spring lockdown my school didn’t do live lessons. Every weekend I uploaded a lesson for each of the lessons for each group (an appropriate video, a PowerPoint with key info and a worksheet). I also looked at the work my students had done and added feedback to one piece of work for each student, suggesting an improvement or making some corrections. I then did in depth marking for my A-level students, every week. Every day I replied to emails and questions from students and parents as needed, in between childcare for my 2-year-old and teaching my 4-year-old... I’d be quite happy to be furloughed on 80% pay instead!!!

Veryverycalmnow · 29/12/2020 19:01

It definitely seems to vary massively. I started a new job part way through this horrible covid time and my previous and current school are doing things very differently, even though they're the same size school etc.

manicinsomniac · 29/12/2020 19:01

If the schools close they are shut. Schools are not equipped to deliver teaching online. Teachers have not been trained to teach online. Children are not equipped to learn online. The curriculum has not been designed to be taught online. If schools close then children will not be receiving an education. It is dishonest to pretend that they are

Blimey, try telling that to the school where I work.
We closed on 18th March for Teams training. Starting on 23rd March we had a full online timetable of 14 subjects, registration, personal tutor time, assembly, chapel and extra curricular clubs for Y6,7 and 8 down to an online timetable of 3 subjects, story time, assembly and clubs for YR and Y1. Other year groups had something inbetween.

It was awful. Everyone hated it. Some parents complained it was too much. Some parents complained it wasn't enough. It didn't feel like education. But the children did not fall behind in academic subjects. They did fall behind in practical subjects and socially/emotionally/behaviourally.

I very much do not want to do it again. For my subjects it was not especially effective. But that's not to say it can't be done.

It is almost impossible for some children to learn online (e.g. some SEN, lack of technology, learning styles, family circumstances) and I believe nearly all children are disadvantaged by it. Which is why I am a very strong opponent of online and blended learning. But things are getting more than a bit out of hand now and I'm starting to see it as a necessary evil. We can do it. Most of us just don't want to!

maverickallthetime · 29/12/2020 19:01

Laptops have been issued to the children in my children's secondary school

DrMadelineXMASwell · 29/12/2020 19:03

Oh please, please, please can I be furloughed on 80% and be asked to do nothing like so many people were without guilt in the first lockdown.

Instead of having to make, find and set online work and back it up with videos to explain it while at the same time being in school in my classroom teaching key worker's children.

I already gave up my easter and May holidays last year to work in the hubs and am fed up of being accused of being workshy through it.

Dukekaboom · 29/12/2020 19:03

I agree with the OP.
The “online learning” from my daughter’s school was nearly non existent. As others have said, we had one worksheet sent home a week and not one single online lesson.
The reason given in lockdown # 1 was that the schools were unprepared and I have some sympathy with that. However the fact they didn’t manage to improve things as the lockdown went on somewhat undermines this. And of course the fact that judging by what lots of you here have said, it was possible to do a lot better!
What will the excuse be if the position is the same this time around? As a lot of you have acknowledged, hopefully it will be a lot less acceptable this time around. It’s obviously really sad that the lazy/dis-interested teachers have given the teaching profession such a bad reputation during the pandemic - when clearly this isn’t the case across the board.

Billie18 · 29/12/2020 19:03

Of course there will be many who have a vested interest in keeping up the pretence that schools can switch to "online learning" or that children are not missing education and some schools and teachers will be doing their very best to make it work. It is also not a criticism of schools or teachers to be honest and say that it is impossible to simply "switch" to something they are not qualified or equipped to do.

OP posts:
manicinsomniac · 29/12/2020 19:05

I know lot of teachers in my subjects (Drama, Dance and Musical Theatre) at other schools who were furloughed. So that is an option (but currently only for independent schools, I think?) However, I don't think it's the way to go. It's possible to teach all subjects to some degree online and academic subjects work pretty well online.

Monkeytennis97 · 29/12/2020 19:05

@DrMadelineXMASwell I've said it before but DH and I would go on furlough for 50% if need be.

Monkeytennis97 · 29/12/2020 19:06

..... or even less...WinkGrin

Monkeytennis97 · 29/12/2020 19:07

@Billie18 we've had to learn it. Oh we've learnt a lot as teachers during the course of the last 9 months. Not all of it to do with video conferencing.

backaftera2yearbreak · 29/12/2020 19:09

No online learning here. A few worksheets and a book sent home in March and no other contact.

manicinsomniac · 29/12/2020 19:09

But Billie We are qualified and increasingly equipped to do it? It's still teaching. It is both harder and, in the majority of cases, less effective but that doesn't make it either impossible or useless. It's an unattractive last resort, not something that just can't be done full stop.

TanglinOrchards · 29/12/2020 19:10

TBH OP I am nit sure you have any idea what you are talking about.

My Dcs school were flipping epic. Within a week of lockdown they had as close to a full curriculum up and running. They focused on the core subjects. Our usual school day is 8.45 to 4 pm then homework club until 4. They did 9 am until 3.30 and then even managed some after school activities like arts and crafts. They were quite simply incredible.

I was truly and honestly in awe.... of the creativity, the motivation, the passion. Driven by a proactive and vibrant headmaster.

The Dcs are Yr 7 and Yr 5.

Namechangeme87 · 29/12/2020 19:10

Il agree that my dc online education provided wasnt the best during lockdown but to me the teachers did their best . Whilst also teaching key worker kids ( I was also at work throughout but not counted as a key worker )

Dc have had a “ proper “ education on the full term since they were back . What makes you think they aren’t getting a proper education?

Teachers are doing their best in a crazy situation with limited time and funds to prepare

MrsHamlet · 29/12/2020 19:10

All of this would be a darn sight easier if the fabled laptops the government promised had actually been delivered.

Abraxan · 29/12/2020 19:11

If the schools close they are shut. Schools are not equipped to deliver teaching online.

Many are and always have been.
Several has invested time, equipment and money to ensuring they now have tech for staff and have robust software and learning platforms in place.

Teachers have not been trained to teach online.

In many schools they have. I trained all of our staff to do just that, almost all done prior to the March lockdown. We'd been advised by an ex colleagues who let us know the types of things she'd have liked to have known how to do had she had forewarning - she teaches in China so was ahead of us in all this.

Children are not equipped to learn online.

Many are and have been doing so since March. Others have learnt with their families since March.
Others without the necessary tech may well be vulnerable and invited into school anyway where they will have access to the support to access the remote learning. Others may have paper based versions delivered to them.

The curriculum has not been designed to be taught online.

A lot of it is perfectly adaptable to remote learning if we try hard enough and provide the necessary equipment and support. It may well not be as good as being taught in schools with qualified teachers, but to say the curriculum cannot be delivered online in incorrect, infact there are many people who do just that ordinarily.

If schools close then children will not be receiving an education. It is dishonest to pretend that they are.

Depends what you mean by an education.
The education they receive may look different to what they'd receive in school, but it may well be an education in another form.
Many children at my school had a full and varied education during the previous lockdown and subsequent isolation periods. A lot of this was via our robust, regular, monitored and varied remote learning. For some their education other forms - or is education only being counted if it is taking place in a school?

So if the schools close then teachers should be furloughed

Well it would be a darn sight easier than what we were doing in March and during isolation periods. Sat at home not working lengthy hours and still getting paid to do so. Wonder where the funding will come from?

Would mean that key workers children and vulnerable children get no childcare though. What happens to the medical staff and supermarket/delivery staff, and the many other key workers etc who can't work due to being no schools to take their children? They then can't work. Can they be furloughed too? Who will pick up their work when they are no longer able to?

March to summer we had full bubbles (we are very close to large teaching hospitals so have a lot of medical staff before you even look at other key workers) and all but 4 members of staff were working full time in school supervising/teaching them as well as providing remote learning. The other 4 of us were home due to being clinically vulnerable and we were the lead team for the remote learning provision. I was working far longer hours leading that that I do when schools are open. Non teaching staff were busy in school throughout as normal. Our safeguarding team worked very long hours caring about out vulnerable children.

children's education should be paused at the point of closure.

Again, does education only happen during term time school hours ordinarily?

Closing schools should not be disguised as something it is not. This would allow the damage to continue indefinitely.

The damage to many of those vulnerable children could be immense if there were no staff available to keep an eye out for them.

If schools remain closed for a longer period then teachers should be made redundant so that they are free to do other work. This of course would be terrible and would hopefully not be allowed to happen... But then schools have already not been fully open for nearly a year.

And what happens when we want schools to be open again for all?
Expect those staff to drop their new jobs and return, despite being treated so poorly?

And most of your comments refer to teachers. Do you realise there are other staff employed within schools? What will you do with those?

Abraxan · 29/12/2020 19:14

The curriculum was paused/suspended in March BY THE GOVERNMENT.

The rules in remote learning expectations were amended and made stronger in October. Nothing was in place by the government or the DfE in March.

CarlottaValdez · 29/12/2020 19:15

Genuine question to the teachers who have been delivering a good online provision - should I be complaining? I just feel really disloyal because the on-site teaching and facilities are great and I don’t want to be a pain. I’m not sure what I should be asking for really - sounds like lots of schools now are doing live remote lessons which seemed to be a no previously.

Kazzyhoward · 29/12/2020 19:16

Same with Unis - our son's Uni are supposedly doing "blended" learning, which should have been a mix of face to face and online, but in reality, the lecturers aren't even on campus, so it's all online, and most of the "lectures" are actually recordings from previous years'. The IT infrastructure is a joke, the wifi is slow and unreliable, he can't download some of the programs that he needs - of course, the Uni's software support staff aren't on campus either - they're working from home and havn't been able to help him download some of the software he needs. In "normal" times, he'd take his laptop to their office, but it's moth-balled. He ended up downloading a pirate version of one software from a dodgy website just to be able to do an assignment. Like everything at the moment, teaching varies enormously between schools/unis, just as treatments etc varies enormously between hospitals/GP surgeries. There's no standardisation, no consistency, meaning an awful lot of winners and losers in a very unfair situation.

blue25 · 29/12/2020 19:17

My children had fantastic online teaching during the last lockdown. I don’t know what you’re talking about!

Abraxan · 29/12/2020 19:20

@CarlottaValdez

Genuine question to the teachers who have been delivering a good online provision - should I be complaining? I just feel really disloyal because the on-site teaching and facilities are great and I don’t want to be a pain. I’m not sure what I should be asking for really - sounds like lots of schools now are doing live remote lessons which seemed to be a no previously.
Was this before October or after?

The rules and expectations were clarified and outlined mid October, so if since then you should definitely be asking school why remote home learning (and this does not need to be live lessons) isn't happening and isn't covering the minimum laid out.

If before then it may still be worth mentioning, though may be a little late now as most schools will have changed what they do after the new 'must do' changes.

WilsonMilson · 29/12/2020 19:21

Absolute rubbish. My ds’s school switched to online in the first lockdown very quickly and the teachers did their utmost in difficult circumstances to deliver the curriculum, and he worked hard every day, kept to his timetable and made the best of it. Full timetable was delivered and teachers were very responsive.

Blue1316 · 29/12/2020 19:22

I agree to an extent re furloughing primary school staff. The work set for primary DC’s is taught by the parents and when you also have a full time job it’s unsustainable to expect parents to do this again and again every lockdown.
Another idea would be to furlough one parent of primary aged DC so that they can provide childcare and education to their children.
If schools do close again and I’ve seen a few posters wanting then closed until March! Then children will have had 4 months education over the last year. Its ridiculous.

Kitcat122 · 29/12/2020 19:23

My children's school did practises for online learning. They had whole days in school completely online plus two days staying home to do online learning. Then feedback from students and parents on how it went. Can't fault them. Plus I'm primary and we have had training for online so you're wrong op. Of course it's not as good as face to face but we are in the a pandemic and we just have to get on with it.