If the schools close there should be no pretence that they have switched to "online learning".

[Billie18]

If the schools close they are shut. Schools are not equipped to deliver teaching online. Teachers have not been trained to teach online. Children are not equipped to learn online. The curriculum has not been designed to be taught online. If schools close then children will not be receiving an education. It is dishonest to pretend that they are.

So if the schools close then teachers should be furloughed and children's education should be paused at the point of closure. Closing schools should not be disguised as something it is not. This would allow the damage to continue indefinitely. If schools remain closed for a longer period then teachers should be made redundant so that they are free to do other work. This of course would be terrible and would hopefully not be allowed to happen... But then schools have already not been fully open for nearly a year.

To an extent I agree. We received very little teaching (7 minute videos per subject, per day, 4 videos all up) no contact from teachers, available only by email and replies limited. Others had a better set up, more interaction, and better teaching. I accepted the school was crap, with little to no engagement. Other schools were great and engaged well.

available only by email

How else would you expect to be in touch?

Other schools were great and engaged well

How so?

TheEcht email is the normal way to contact parents but most children prefer to use the messaging function within teams during lessons themselves in my experience. It's easier and it's all recorded.

The only available by email wasn't the issue- the length to reply was. Other schools had regular online meetings with the kids- reading groups, teaching done in groups- ours didn't. I do believe some schools have managed it better than others, and I don't feel it's unreasonable to say so- that's all.

I can't see how anyone can say that a recorded lesson or written instructions online can be better than a live lesson?

I posted the EEF’s research document upthread. Their conclusions were that it is about the quality of teaching rather than the method of delivery.
There was no measurable difference between live and prerecorded/non live.

It might seem counter intuitive- but slot of things about teaching pedagogy are. That’s why it’s important school and teachers are aware of research by organisations like the EEF.

*a lot

@SD1978 - I agree, I don't see that it's remotely controversial to say that some schools provided better provision during lockdown than others, surely it's a fact.

The reasons for it may be down to government, teachers teaching elsewhere, pupils unwilling or unable to engage with what was provided, but I find this inability to believe or be allowed to mention that for some pupils not much was given very frustrating.

@SmileEachDay
I looked at the link you provided and it was really interesting, thanks for sharing. It doesn’t convince me that virtual lessons are as good when it comes to young/primary aged children though. I can well imagine learning being virtual might not make as much different for older students but that me this of teacher just doesn’t seem to be online with what 4,5,6 years olds need.

My school must be doing something wrong. During the last two weeks, if a large proportion of our class was isolating, we had to broadcast the lesson over teams. I did this about a dozen times and got a grand total of zero students attending. One teacher in my department got three turn up, the rest were like me. When one of the students returned, I asked to log in as them to check if I was doing everything right, and there was the invite. The student told me, yes, they knew about teams, yes, they knew how to log on- they just hadn’t.
In my experience, in recent times the road block to online learning is not a lack of online teaching but a lack of student engagement. I don’t know whether this was because it was near Christmas, a bit chaotic, or what, but our students certainly saw it as being entirely optional.

My experience is schools doing the very best they can. DS2 (year 7) switched to online learning at the end of term 2. The initial trial day was a bit chaotic, but when it became reality it was very good - registration for each lesson and all topics taught, including pe, music and drama. They all have to have iPads for school anyway, so access wasn't an issue.

DS3 (year 7) is at an SEN school and in an SLD class, so all children have significant needs. Two short classes took place on line each day and lots of help was provided for activities in the remainder of the day. Inevitably this is quite time consuming for me as a parent, but DS felt connected to his class still and learning was taking place.

Obviously these are just two examples, but I cannot agree that ALL schools are not equipped to teach online.

If secondaries shut, you can be sure that there will be huge differences in the quality of online education between schools. When individual years have been sent home near me in some schools they had almost no live teaching at all. I assume that would be the same in any lockdown.

Noellodee

This is the experience at my school too.

@SD1978

To an extent I agree. We received very little teaching (7 minute videos per subject, per day, 4 videos all up) no contact from teachers, available only by email and replies limited. Others had a better set up, more interaction, and better teaching. I accepted the school was crap, with little to no engagement. Other schools were great and engaged well.

This would have been the ideal set up for me and my circumstances though.

Working full time at home means I cannot supervise or give access to any live lessons for my child during the school day.
Short informative videos or links to videos is much better for me to be able to catch up in the evening or do home learning at the weekends.

What’s one person’s crap is another person’s gold.

Incidentally, during the first lockdown, my school sent out a survey to parents (1800+ students and secondary) just after Easter asking them what method of delivery they prefer and the overwhelming majority did not want live lessons due to many working from home, issues with not having enough technology, good enough broadband, engagement including students having very different sleep patterns due to lockdown etc. (it was very interesting reading the responses)
Providing work that children could do when it suited them, worked well.

After the 26th October directive from the government, we got in microphones for our classroom computers, which meant we could live stream our lessons in school to those self isolating at home and there’s usually 10-15 minutes wasted at the start of every lesson repeatedly inviting pupils to join, letting in latecomers from the lobby and then emailing home to the many students who don’t sign in to the lesson from home. So many students also join in the lesson at the start and then go awol. It’s so disruptive and meant physically in the classroom also lost out.

It’s not the magic solution most parents who want live lessons, seem to think it is.

Yes, they knew about teams, yes, they knew how to log on- they just hadn’t.
In my experience, in recent times the road block to online learning is not a lack of online teaching but a lack of student engagement. I don’t know whether this was because it was near Christmas, a bit chaotic, or what, but our students certainly saw it as being entirely optional.

This this this!

My primary children's school were excellent, they had filmed teachers doing lessons and work that followed it with a time table.
Each parent was contacted weekly by phone or email (depending on the parents preference).
Same with my sons sen school and also no pressure to get them to do all the work just what you could manage.
My dd secondary school on the other hand wasnt so great.

Glad it wasn’t just my department!

We had a full class of pupils and parents wanting to engage in Microsoft Teams. My friend works for Microsoft teams and went in to the school do a presentation to show them how to use it. Yet still all we got was a few worksheets. That is not an education and unless it’s different this time it still won’t be. Meanwhile the school up the road is doing hours of filmed and live lessons. It’s the discrepancies that are the problem. Now many children in our school are months behind their peers despite the parents best efforts (whilst trying to work!)

@WasSchoolTeacherSecondary

Speaking as a recently-retired secondary teacher with 28 years' experience, I am afraid that some schools and teachers have only themselves to blame for what they perceive and term as 'teacher-bashing'. The reality is that standards of educational provision in England at normal times, let alone in the current conditions, are woeful. The pandemic has served to illustrate this to many parents who, IMO, deserve to know the truth about their children's education. There are many and varied reasons for these poor standards, not least atrocious and inconsistent 'management' of schools in the state sector and disproportionate workload for frontline classroom teachers who are faced with classes of 30+ while those who sit in judgement on them spend the day in offices carrying out admin. work.

Perhaps you'd better hoik yourself out of retirement to show us all how it's done then.

Now many children in our school are months behind their peers despite the parents best efforts (whilst trying to work!)

Behind in what way? What I mean is, what are you measuring this against?

Playing devil’s advocate, why would a child who has been completing all given worksheets, well, be behind a pupil, who say was in a live lesson but not engaging (which is very common)?

This is also true when children are physically in a classroom and why some pupils do well and some don’t, in normal times (SEND and vulnerable etc notwithstanding)

I still can’t understand why those of you who didn’t rate your school’s lockdown provision didn’t a) discuss it with the school during the last six months, using the last term to clarify what they would provide if it happened again or b) move your child to a school where you did approve of the online provision. It really couldn’t have been a shock to find we would be in a precarious position in the Spring Term.

Whilst other posters claim the OP (and some of the subsequent responses) were being facetious asking for teachers to be furloughed, you should take something away from the replies from teachers who would be quite happy to take it. That isn’t the response of a group of people who feel valued and safe, is it?

If the schools close they are shut. Schools are not equipped to deliver teaching online. Teachers have not been trained to teach online. Children are not equipped to learn online. The curriculum has not been designed to be taught online. If schools close then children will not be receiving an education. It is dishonest to pretend that they are.

I wasn't trained to do my job online, but I have been doing it since March. I don't see why teachers shouldn't be able to do the same.

That's interesting that they don't show up to the hybrid model. I haven't experienced this yet. We only had isolated absences last term so just set work on our internal learning platform and via email. Maybe it's psychological - if you are off and most of the class is in you feel like you're off sick and it's not work time? Whereas if the whole class are online then it feels like the lesson. Maybe. I think the parents at my school will make the children go though - not least because they're paying a lot of money! The children are all 13 and under too do more controllable.

@notevenat20

If secondaries shut, you can be sure that there will be huge differences in the quality of online education between schools. When individual years have been sent home near me in some schools they had almost no live teaching at all. I assume that would be the same in any lockdown.

Does every child in your school have access to a computer and a decent speed internet system. We had to do away with anything live as parental surveys showed that a tiny minority actually had the tech to support it. Plus, good teaching does not mean talking at a class. It's a short explanation followed by plenty of time to explore and learn

@BustopherPonsonbyJones

I still can’t understand why those of you who didn’t rate your school’s lockdown provision didn’t a) discuss it with the school during the last six months, using the last term to clarify what they would provide if it happened again or b) move your child to a school where you did approve of the online provision. It really couldn’t have been a shock to find we would be in a precarious position in the Spring Term.

Whilst other posters claim the OP (and some of the subsequent responses) were being facetious asking for teachers to be furloughed, you should take something away from the replies from teachers who would be quite happy to take it. That isn’t the response of a group of people who feel valued and safe, is it?

On moving schools its really not as easy as you suggest -all primaries had same provision in borough, not sure if LA had impact

• dc have much valued friends
• if you wanted to get into our secondary which does have very good online provision you would have to join a wait list which is long

If we get what we got last time for primary I’d do the same and use Oak rather than pull out Ds who is happy there

They haven’t isolated at all yet so not sure what it is this time

@BustopherPonsonbyJones - have you ever engaged with state schools admissions system? Round here every primary school and all but one secondary is heavily oversubscribed and there are long waiting lists for in year transfers. There are not even enough school places in some boroughs for the number of children. You can't just "move schools", it's not a consumer choice.