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primaries back on 4th, secondaries 18th so says TES

229 replies

Oilyvoir · 29/12/2020 13:36

www.tes.com/news/exclusive-new-school-opening-delay-agreed-ministers

OP posts:
Donuts000 · 29/12/2020 15:07

Will the planned mass testing in schools be for all secondary children or just those in a bubble with a confirmed case? Does testing replace bubbles?
Personally think parents should have the choice

2020isalmosthindsight · 29/12/2020 15:08

@StylishMummy

I'd be bloody livid if they close early years and primary. Our children cannot be sacrificed for something that kills older people/those who are sick already. I'm CEV before anyone jumps at me.
Oh do fuck off. I teach in a primary school and the isolation numbers were shooting up the last week of term. I'm also over 50 and would prefer not to bring it home to my older husband and my own children. Or worse, get quite ill or die myself.
Catsneezies · 29/12/2020 15:08

Some primary aged children can learn from home very well. My DC in Y3 and Y5 learnt a lot more at home than they did at school as we could concentrate on their weaker areas. I was also wfh and it was massively stressful but its just not true to say that all primary school children don't learn at home. Vulnerable children were still at school.

Does anyone have a link to the numbers of 18th Dec showing rates of 2000+ per 100,000 in primary schools? Lots of people don't believe it when I tell them.

stovetopespresso · 29/12/2020 15:09

@Catsneezies

"Dec 18th:

Primary rates 2100 per 100k
Secondary rates 2800 per 100k"

Why isn't this publicised more in the mainstream press? I keep hearing people say that children don't spread it!

Nill Fergussen on radio 4 about an hour ago seemed to saybits not that they spread it more coz they're kids, it's just one of the areas still available to the gov to shut down as the new strain is ao catching.
pusscatsinblankets · 29/12/2020 15:10

@PandemicPavolova

I'm loving the confidence of the posters who claim these new mutations do not affect children... Can you link to your sources so I can share this optimism..
Can you provide any links that show the new mutations cause children to become more unwell?
year5teacher · 29/12/2020 15:10

I want all children in full time but I’m feeling increasingly like it’s not going to work. We can only try though.

DayBath · 29/12/2020 15:11

To all the teachers in this thread, what can be done about your unions being so...well...crap?

I understand some things are out of the unions control, like the government refusing to invite them to meetings for example. But from an outsider perspective it seems you really aren't being supported by them very well. What happens when a union no longer represents the interests of its members? In terms of the legal constructs I mean, how can unions be compelled to actually do something?

stovetopespresso · 29/12/2020 15:13

agree schools and teachers have been treated appallingly.

Catsneezies · 29/12/2020 15:15

"Nill Fergussen on radio 4 about an hour ago seemed to saybits not that they spread it more coz they're kids, it's just one of the areas still available to the gov to shut down as the new strain is ao catching."

This makes no sense. Children are known to be superspreaders of viruses such as noro and flu. They are packed together with no masks and no social distancing. Of course it is going to spread like wildfire in schools! And of course they are going to spread it more than adults who are wearing masks and social distancing when inside and are not spending most of the day in a small room with 30 other people.

Basic common sense.

SophieB100 · 29/12/2020 15:17

Similar in Guardian:
English secondary schools unlikely to fully open until mid-January at earliest
Ministers thrash out new plans including staff being given high priority for Covid vaccinations

Tue 29 Dec 2020 14.49 GMT First published on Tue 29 Dec 2020 14.37

Secondary schools in England are unlikely to fully reopen until after mid-January at the earliest, according to new plans being thrashed out within government that would also see school staff be given high priority for Covid vaccinations.

According to government sources, ministers are torn between heeding its scientific advisers over the rapid spread of the new Covid variant, and warnings from the Department for Education that switching to remote learning for the whole of January would make it hard for schools and colleges to reopen again before Easter, jeopardising next year’s exams.

The revised timetable being discussed would see only older students who are taking exams, such as A-levels and GCSEs, receiving remote teaching for the week from 4 January, effectively giving most secondary pupils an extra week’s holiday while schools and colleges gear up to carry out mass testing.

The Guardian Today newsletter: the headlines, the analysis, the debate – sent direct to you
Read more
For the week beginning 11 January, those taking exams, mainly years 11 and 13, would be allowed back in the classroom while others were taught remotely, followed by all year groups returning in person from 18 January.

Primary schools are unlikely to be affected, and would return according to their normal timetable. Vulnerable secondary-aged children would be able to return to school premises from 4 January, regardless of year group.

Boris Johnson is said to be considering the proposals and the final decision is likely to be announced on Wednesday alongside the tier review for England and more data on the national infection rate.

Geoff Barton, the general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, said: “We haven’t had any contact from the government since Christmas about whether or not the spring term will go ahead as planned, and it has been intensely frustrating that there has been a swirl of speculation with no clarity and with less than a week before term begins.

“We are expecting to speak with the government shortly and we will be pressing for schools and colleges to be given clear guidance as soon as possible.”

The government is also likely to reveal that school staff, including teachers, would be moved into a higher priority group to receive Covid vaccinations, but still below NHS workers and the most vulnerable groups.

“We would very much welcome any plans to prioritise school and college staff for Covid vaccinations because they are being asked to go into an environment which is inherently busy and crowded. Vaccinations would give them extra reassurance, reduce the need for staff to self-isolate, and mean less disruption,” Barton said.

The new timetable effectively pushes back the government’s plans for a staggered start by a further week compared with the plans it announced before Christmas.

The DfE will also recommit to regular mass testing of asymptomatic school staff and secondary school and college students. The government is expecting secondary schools and colleges to recruit and organise volunteers to conduct testing, while those unable to do so will require 10-days self-isolation for staff and students before returning to school.

The government has promised head teachers the assistance of 1,500 military personnel to prepare for the mass testing regime already announced. But with nearly 4,000 secondary schools and colleges in England, in most cases the direct help will be limited to phone and video calls.

The debates within Whitehall were given fresh urgency after advice from the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) that the rate of infections could spiral out of control unless schools are closed for the whole of January.

The new timetable supported by the DfE is seen as treading a fine line between extended school closures, which would imperil the sitting of GCSEs and other exams in summer, and the demands to tackle the spread of infection. But concerns remain over how parents and teachers will react to minimal closures, with fears that both groups could vote with their feet and stay away while the virus remains unchecked.

The prime minister’s spokesman said on Tuesday: “We’re still planning for a staggered opening of schools and we’re working to ensure testing is in place.

“But as we’ve said throughout the pandemic, we obviously keep all measures under constant review.”

Pressed on whether all parents could be assured there would be no changes to the timetable next week, the spokesman insisted the government was “planning for a staggered opening of schools” but reasserted that all measures were under review.

Asked if there were any plans for education staff to be prioritised for the vaccine after teaching union leaders called for them to receive jabs alongside health workers, the spokesman said the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation had clearly set out the first phase of those who should receive the vaccine. “We’ve always been clear that we need to ensure that we provide the vaccine to those who are seen to be the most clinically vulnerable and that’s what we’re doing,” he added.

Key phrase: "Mid January at the earliest"

EdwardCullensBiteOnTheSide · 29/12/2020 15:19

@stylishmummy read your post back and tell me it doesn't sound like utter shite. Might have sounded OK in your head but written down it sounds stupid. ONLY kills older people and already ill people? They are still peoples lives, human beings who have every right to live just as you do. If closing schools will save some of those lives then close them.

clareykb · 29/12/2020 15:20

I'm a supply teacher primary and a trainee social worker and I really think we should stay open. Possibly secondary on a rota or similar in tier 4 areas would be sensible.I think that people shouldn't be fined if they opt not to send in their kids and that vulnerable staff should be allowed to work from home if they want to maybe doing online for kids not at school. I think also that the government need to shell out more money to allow schools to do this. I also think that people who are maybe in a position to keep their children safe and educated at home forget that this isn't the case for most children or a sizable amount anyway and especially at KS1 probably up to about Y4 the risks to the child from getting covid are much less than the risk of missing school. I'm in an area of the north that has been in restrictions for ages and I still believe that blanket closure isn't a good idea.

DayBath · 29/12/2020 15:22

@pusscatsinblankets I'm not the poster you asked but to answer -

Wendy Barclay a virologist from Imperial and NERVTAG member said the mutations mean “children are, perhaps, equally susceptible to this virus as adults”. "Therefore, given their mixing patterns, you would expect to see more children being infected"

We don't yet know the implications of this in terms of hospitalisation rates for children as enough time hasn't elapsed, this will only become clear in mid to late January.

Will be interested to hear your side if you know of evidence to that the variant is completely safe for children. As far as I'm aware scientists just don't have the answers yet!

Monkeytennis97 · 29/12/2020 15:23

@DayBath

To all the teachers in this thread, what can be done about your unions being so...well...crap?

I understand some things are out of the unions control, like the government refusing to invite them to meetings for example. But from an outsider perspective it seems you really aren't being supported by them very well. What happens when a union no longer represents the interests of its members? In terms of the legal constructs I mean, how can unions be compelled to actually do something?

God knows. Sorry not helpful. I do think there will be a lot of teacher breakdowns/ptsd after all this. I am so so disappointed in our unions.
Gingerbreadfeeling · 29/12/2020 15:25

The bit I don't understand is why DfE are saying that closing schools for January would make it difficult for them to open before Easter? Can anyone explain that?

Monkeytennis97 · 29/12/2020 15:28

@Gingerbreadfeeling

The bit I don't understand is why DfE are saying that closing schools for January would make it difficult for them to open before Easter? Can anyone explain that?
I don't get that either... surely we would reopen after half term?
nosswith · 29/12/2020 15:29

Not consulting teaching unions is no surprise. Given the approach of two of the Secretaries of State for Education (current and the former one, now Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster).

What about sixth form, FE and HE colleges and universities? Surely online for them for a period of time would be desirable too?

herecomesthsun · 29/12/2020 15:30

@clareykb

I'm a supply teacher primary and a trainee social worker and I really think we should stay open. Possibly secondary on a rota or similar in tier 4 areas would be sensible.I think that people shouldn't be fined if they opt not to send in their kids and that vulnerable staff should be allowed to work from home if they want to maybe doing online for kids not at school. I think also that the government need to shell out more money to allow schools to do this. I also think that people who are maybe in a position to keep their children safe and educated at home forget that this isn't the case for most children or a sizable amount anyway and especially at KS1 probably up to about Y4 the risks to the child from getting covid are much less than the risk of missing school. I'm in an area of the north that has been in restrictions for ages and I still believe that blanket closure isn't a good idea.
I'm all in favour of more parental choice. Without kids losing their school place forever etc. We just need to make it to the vaccines.
pusscatsinblankets · 29/12/2020 15:31

@DayBath no I don't have anything that definitively says that it's not more dangerous for children, but nor is there anything to say definitively that it is. What I've seen published so far, however, doesn't suggest that it is. For example, the BMJ article below.
@PandemicPavolova

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4857

Barbie222 · 29/12/2020 15:32

@Gingerbreadfeeling

The bit I don't understand is why DfE are saying that closing schools for January would make it difficult for them to open before Easter? Can anyone explain that?
I think that sentence alone illustrates fine well how appearance, rather than science is at the heart of the decision. Why is Gav so scared of teacher assessment? Scotland and Wales are doing it. He just likes people to think he's hard.
Goodbye2020Hello2021 · 29/12/2020 15:33
pusscatsinblankets · 29/12/2020 15:34

@DayBath @PandemicPavolova we can also consider the timeline of how long the new variants have been around. I'm happy to be corrected and pointer to reliable info that says otherwise, but there hasn't been anything reported about an increase in the admissions of children with covid. By now, you'd expect cases to start reaching the hospitals.

Noellodee · 29/12/2020 15:35

Is the reason behind them saying that if we close in January, it will make it hard to open them before Easter, because their projections show cases rising, rather than falling, over this period?

EmmanuelleMakro · 29/12/2020 15:35

Email received today from my school (secondary teacher) is the 11&13 back in school, other years remote teaching. If this new advice is that 11&13 also remote till 11th/it will certainly be easier for teachers, tho for parents...not so much.

Iamnotthe1 · 29/12/2020 15:36

@Donuts000

Will the planned mass testing in schools be for all secondary children or just those in a bubble with a confirmed case? Does testing replace bubbles? Personally think parents should have the choice
Neither.

The testing is only for people identified as close contacts of a confirmed case. They will be tested each morning instead of self-isolating.

Unfortunately, the tests are unreliable and only work when you have a high viral load which means that children will be in school and transmitting to others for several days before the positive result, if they get one at all.

This will actually make the classrooms less Covid-secure than they were, which I didn't think was possible.