Those wanting school open - are you not worried about your DC?

[Hicksville21]

Just that really. Do you not think it’s time to keep our kids home safe until this wave passes?

@formerbabe

but I sent DS in when his head of year encouraged me to

So you didn't actually need it for childcare?

He wasn't coping alone all day every day while I worked out of the home, he needed it for interaction and companionship.

Lots of parents didn't take up the keyworker places at our school at first. My two went to school from the start of lockdown in March, and there were maybe 5 or 6 children in each day, out of a primary school of 600. By May it was more like 30 or 40 a day. Our school only required one parent to be a KW so I guess lots of parents managed at home until they felt it was safer.

To be honest, we could've managed at home too (I'm not a keyworker, just DP), but the provision was there so we took it. And will next week if the school closes and we are still allowed to.

He wasn't coping alone all day every day while I worked out of the home, he needed it for interaction and companionship

Lots of children were in the same boat....but weren't considered worthy enough for help.

I'm not saying it's your fault but the whole system stinks.

@formerbabe

He wasn't coping alone all day every day while I worked out of the home, he needed it for interaction and companionship

Lots of children were in the same boat....but weren't considered worthy enough for help.

I'm not saying it's your fault but the whole system stinks.

At my school children who were identified as struggling at home or those who's parents were struggling at home were encouraged to come in, key worker or not.

[quote formerbabe]@kowari

I thought a key worker place was because parents had to work in essential jobs and hence childcare was needed. It's not simply a reward because your parent does a certain job. My dc struggled very much too. But no option to return.

First few weeks of the initial lockdown my dcs school had six key worker children...who I guess genuinely needed the place. As time went on, there were over 100 key workers children in. Why didn't those people need the place at the beginning of lockdown?[/quote]
Lots of key workers parents at my school decided to keep their children off where possible and work around their partners shifts so one person was available to stay at home with the children.

As time went on, they were not able to do this as both were needed out of the home to work during school hours so they took up the spaces allocated to them.

We also identified vulnerable pupils and offered spaces to those based on need. This was allowed within the guidelines. Some were offered places as the lockdown went on as their mental well-being hit rock bottom and parents or carers contacted us desperate for help.

It was down to individual schools to organise the provision and as you realise, many did this differently. My school managed to open to key workers, vulnerable pupils and those in R, Y1 and Y6 - albeit Yr 1 and Y6 had to be staggered later than R.

@formerbabe

He wasn't coping alone all day every day while I worked out of the home, he needed it for interaction and companionship

Lots of children were in the same boat....but weren't considered worthy enough for help.

I'm not saying it's your fault but the whole system stinks.

This is a conversation with the head of the school. They should be able to explain why they made the decisions they did at that particular time. Not all schools had the same stance.

We stupidly kept DS at home despite both being key workers as we thought we were "doing our bit" we were manic busy and he had no stimulation, no interaction and no education. After the half term he went back in. If there's an announcement next week about this and schools are off he'll be back straight away, neither him nor us are going through what we went through in spring again.

If both parents are working in or outside the home key workers or not then the children need to be in school. As I keep saying on repeat the risk to children is low to non existent and also for the majority of school staff. Children will only spread it to the 'wider community" if those who are vulnerable choose to mix with kids and vice versa. And yes, I'm afraid I am "selfish" when it comes to my children.

@formerbabe

He wasn't coping alone all day every day while I worked out of the home, he needed it for interaction and companionship

Lots of children were in the same boat....but weren't considered worthy enough for help.

I'm not saying it's your fault but the whole system stinks.

I do think it's unfair, particularly for young people who were completely alone. I grew up with siblings and I think I had it easier having my similar aged sibling around even though we had nothing in common, or even at the same age as my DS and caring for my much younger sibling.

Children will only spread it to the 'wider community" if those who are vulnerable choose to mix with kids and vice versa.

So the vulnerable who are staffing your schools at the moment? [I understand that in Tier 4, CEV teachers are advised not to be physically in school. In all other tiers, all CV and CEV school staff are in, teaching and working as normal, with no PPE.] Not to mention all those staff - hey, all those parents of school age children - who live with or care for those who are vulnerable through age or underlying condition.

Do we - vulnerable school staff, staff with vulnerable family members, vulnerable parents, grandparents, siblings and relatives of school age children - genuinely have the CHOICE not to mix with kids?

I think it’s very difficult, when the chips are down, for people to acknowledge the conflicting needs of others.

I’ll be gutted for my healthy (primary and pre school aged) children if schools close again, because their settings are good for them and being at home (no garden) with me trying to work will be crap for them. Meanwhile the virus is extremely unlikely to seriously harm them.

From the secure position of knowing my job is safe and our household health is robust? I can see that the unsafe situation for school staff is shocking, and that the wider community needs transmission to fall quickly and therefore schools should close. I can feel horrified for the kids for whom home is not safe (and keeping schools open for vulnerable kids does not wholly address this damage). I can feel gutted for the children who will be more disadvantaged by this because even without a garden or sufficient parental attention in a lockdown situation, mine will still have a number of protective factors there.

But I can also totally see how people who are rightly terrified of covid or of lockdown, don’t currently have these reserves to care very much about other families. It’s too hard sometimes.

I'm feeling really anxious about the school thing. I'm fortunate that I'm a contractor, but after kids isolating and rates going up, I'm tempted to put things on hold for a couple of months and muddle through on savings. I have put every area of my life and kids life on hold, so kids minimise risk of spreading to others in school and out. Education wise, my reception kid is going over old ground that they learned in pre-school (can already read, do basic maths, so isolation zoom calls sounding out individual letters are not stimulating but I get it), year 1 kid is also waiting for other kids to catch up, so main issue is for them is to have kids to socialise with as can't do play dates etc. I appreciate there are other elements to school too. For us personally and probably for thousands of kids throughout country where they are at the top of their class, the education aspect of forcing kids to stay in school full time right now does not ring true and many of those kids would do better being able to work at their own pace. Smaller class sizes would allow all kids a better chance of being appropriately stimulated, even if only taught half the time. It would be safer for kids, teachers and the community and kids would still have social access. It would allow some people in my position to work more as there would be less uncertainty and less periods of isolation. Even if some kids needed to be in the whole time, where neither parent has option to work from home, SEN etc, others being in half time would still reduce risk. Many private schools (we are state) have much fewer kids in class and should not necessarily be forced to close. It might increase divide, but I'm personally thankful for those that send to private as how much more fucked would state schools be if private schools didn't exist?!

WFH means you can't sufficiently educate or stimulate your child.

If you are vulnerable or a family member is then yes stay at home should be an option, if not encouraged... vulnerable teachers can WFH putting together a decent online learning package, which was sadly lacking in many schools during the first lockdown. Very avoidant and nebulous excuses as to why my DS school didn't do more live lessons/online resources.

As for grandparents, unfortunately they can't see their grandkids until it's safer for them. No contact bar brief meets outside for us since march. Unless you live with a grandparent which is complicated I don't see why more people don't get this? My own parents are keeping themselves safe for their own well being, and to prevent hospital overload and they fully support schools staying open.

My own parents are keeping themselves safe for their own well being, and to prevent hospital overload and they fully support schools staying open.

What about the grandparents who are guardians / kinship carers for their school-age grandchildren?

What about the teachers and parents who are carers for grandparents, and thus have to visit them daily or more often, and often deliver intimate care?

What about the parents or siblings of school age children who work as carers, either in residential settings or for people at home?

Multi-generational households, though perhaps rare in 'typical MN socio-economic groups' are near-universal within some communities too.

I think it is your use of the word 'choose' that is open to debate in:

"Children will only spread it to the 'wider community" if those who are vulnerable choose to mix with kids and vice versa"

The non-elderly vulnerable may have very little choice about who they interact with, because some will be in jobs where direct or indirect contact with children is unavoidable.

Some of the elderly vulnerable will have freedom of choice - grandparents who live independently without support, for example. Others will not, because they live with, or are reliant on, either the children themselves or those who have close contact with them.

I'm not saying it's your fault but the whole system stinks.

I agree but there are places available to ‘vulnerable’ kids. And these aren’t just the classics kids in care etc. Although your DC may have been affected somewhat from staying at home there would have been other children whose family homes are not as good so are more at risk by staying at home.

I am a key worker but my DCs secondary school has already said there is only space for vulnerable children this time.

A choice would be good indeed.
I would also like to see the children included in the vaccine programs. Pfizer is starting trials with age 12 to 18. I hope Astra Zeneca is working on it, and lower age groups too. In the long term, I do want my child vaccinated (secondary, which had high rates from October if you check the graphs). I do not want to risk this virus starting to badly affect them.

@MushMonster there are lots of vaccine trials happenings including more traditional weakened version vaccines which may be more suitable for trialling on children. As this virus barely affects children we can't rush into vaccinating them without robust trials, kids are not small adults.

They are trialling pfizer's now, down to only 12. Astra, I do not have the age figure, but ongoing.
They are not small adults, but no super humans either.
So in the long term, I do want to see them vaccinated. At least mine.

But presumably safely @MushMonster. Adults can consent to trials, it's much more complex for children.

The Oxford Vaccine was originally going to include 5+ in their trials, but this changed.
I would just like some glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel with regards vaccinating ds (10 and medically vulnerable)

OP how many school aged children have died of CoVid?? Serious question. This is not the Black Plague, this is a flu that is dangerous for the elderly and vulnerable.

It is not a flu.

And, yes of course safely. I know children medicines do take further testing and longer to approve. But I am really upset about them not starting earlier on this. And also about the afe groups. I would expect, no expert here, that the Astra vaccine would be ok to test on low age groups, as it is a trafitional vaccine.
Some people seen to be pro just leaving them all without any vaccine, while the adults get it.
I am wary, much, of this. As if they are left so, what about if the virus starts making them sick with a future strain? I think the vaccine will at least give them equal chances to the rest of the population. Instead of making them the only vessels it can really replicate in. This, trully, terrifies me.

@MushMonster

I see your point

Instead of making them the only vessels it can really replicate in

I think some parents are partly responsible also, as they seem to be taking very little precautions regarding children as supposedly 'the virus doesn't affect them'.

So no masks, taking them to busy playgrounds, scooters on busy streets/shops, playdates, etc. Obviously I don't mean keeping them at home all the time , but being slightly more careful.

It's not just schools that are helping propagate the virus amongst children.

@MushMonster

And, yes of course safely. I know children medicines do take further testing and longer to approve. But I am really upset about them not starting earlier on this. And also about the afe groups. I would expect, no expert here, that the Astra vaccine would be ok to test on low age groups, as it is a trafitional vaccine. Some people seen to be pro just leaving them all without any vaccine, while the adults get it. I am wary, much, of this. As if they are left so, what about if the virus starts making them sick with a future strain? I think the vaccine will at least give them equal chances to the rest of the population. Instead of making them the only vessels it can really replicate in. This, trully, terrifies me.

This. Everyone always says well it doesn't affect kids, so they'll be fine, but viruses mutate and change. Letting it run riot in one subsection of the population unchecked was always a dangerous gamble. Its possible that we have this new mutation spreading in the UK because of the situation in schools (I know its not proven but its a not unreasonable hypothesis). Its important that kids have access to a version of the vaccine as well as soon as possible so we don't inadvertently create conditions for further mutations in that age group.