Friend said DH is abusing furlough

[amy198820]

DH been on furlough from 2 jobs since March (one full time job and one part time job he does one evening a week). He has been back to work on and off since the summer and is now on the flexi furlough scheme and both jobs have topped his pay to 100%. Since the tier 4 announcement he has been put back on furlough completely.

As tier 4 is looking like it will continue through Jan/Feb, and so unlikely he will be going back anytime soon DH had applied for another job to keep him busy rather than sit at home. DH found out before Christmas he has got the job and he has made this new employer aware that this job will just be a fill in whilst he is on furlough and the employer has accepted this and are happy to take him on. (its a friend of a friend type thing)

Spoke with my friend and earlier and told her about DH's new temporary position explaining that its better than him sitting at home all day /gives him something to do until all this passes etc. My friend took umbrage with this and said that we are abusing the system and that this isnt what the scheme was designed for. I didn't really know what to say and so said sorry she was offended and would speak to her later on.

For background before anyone says anything, I was not being insensitive, my friend has not suffered financially due to COVID as she has been working from home continuously throughout.

I want to call my friend back soon as to not let the bad feeling grow. How would you suggest I approach this? I do not think we are doing anything wrong, just trying to get through this pandemic and doing the best for our family as would anyone else.

It's not fraud, it's not illegal and your DH's employer is aware of the situation. He would receive furlough pay regardless of whether he works in another job so the taxpayer is not being ripped off, despite the hysteria on here.

Like you say, it makes sense to earn while you can, who knows what might happen in the future.

Perhaps your friend will pay your mortgage for you if things go tits up? No perhaps not.

If you ignore the 3 million that are not being helped.

Then the complaints should be with the governments not helping those who need it. Not a pile on against one person taking another job legally and doing better for themselves temporarily on it.

Enjoy your money OP, as a director of a limited company I've received absolutely jack shit and the rules for directors is that they can't actually work aside from directors duties while claiming any aspect of furlough.

Because we are the frauds and tax avoiders "apparently" makes you wonder eh.

I've managed to keep all of my staff on 100% and use flex furlough, I'd be reconsidering their loyalty and ethics if I found they wanted to work for another firm while I've been supporting them and grafting to keep the business afloat.

As for taxes I've been paying their NI, corporation taxes and been a tax collector for VAT around the tune of 2.8mlion over the course of the business running, don't you think I also deserve some support?

So what he is doing is banking tax payers money for his rainy day fund? So I'm with your friend 100%

Like I said I know the rules inside out and he's not legally doing anything wrong but morally it's stinks, and don't be surprised if his employers have the same moral compass as me, because they maybe nice now but I promise you when it comes to redundancy he would be top of my list.

He should be staying home to avoid spreading the virus not taking tax payments money and lining your pockets.

Well he is allowed but he is taking the piss. It's not really fair that the tax payer is paying your husband and he is earning. I suppose it depends on your morals. Personally I would volunteer

Sounds fine to me - pretty sure the job he got was open for other people to apply for as well! He’s clearly the best person who applied for it which isn’t his fault. I think he’s very wise to secure his future like this when jobs that have been furloughed are clearly not secure going forward. He’s been open and honest and it’s all legal - at the end of the day we all have to look out for our own families.

I think you're getting a lot of completely unnecessary shit here OP. Your DH isn't responsible for the pandemic, he's not responsible for the fact he was furloughed, and as someone who was furloughed for 4 months earlier this year (then made redundant) I completely understand the need to be doing something. My mental health suffered immensely whilst I was furloughed which immediately cleared once I was able to get back to work.

Your DH is not responsible for anybody else's suffering and I entirely agree that you don't know what may be round the corner, so saving as much as you can is very wise thing to do.

You've not done anything illegal, people here need to lay off and stop attacking someone to who's just trying to make the best of a shit situation.

It seems to be the very definition of having your cake and eating it. I’m with your friend - this does not sit easily. Like lots of things, just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

We have both been tax payers for 15+ years, so have put in a lot more than taken out

Unless you are both SERIOUSLY high earners - no, you haven't. The vast majority of people do not pay in more than they take out in their lifetime.

@MatildaTheCat

Well he may not be abusing the system but he’s certainly using it to his advantage. For all of the rest of us who also pay tax I guess it’s unlikely to win you any accolades.

The system needs to be tightened up and immediately. I wonder if your DH would be as keen on his new job if there was no financial gain from it?

Well obviously not - he is doing it to earn money funnily enough

Anyone who has been furloughed presumably knows their job is at risk in the long term. I think it’s sensible to explore other prospects while you’re still in employment, rather than wait until you’re already in a difficult financial situation (which for most people would be literally immediately they lose their job).

So you can be furloughed from one job and then take on a new job, whilst receiving 'pay' from both of them? So basically he's in profit from being furloughed? I have no idea if it's legal but it doesn't sound morally right to me.

It may be legal but it’s highly unethical. The country is going bankrupt. The furlough scheme is there so people can keep up their mortgage payments etc while there’s no work for them. If your husband wants the extra job then he should give back the same amount in furlough money that he earns in the new job.

It’s also allowed me to build up an emergency fund, so should I be made rendundant i have something to fall back on and will be less likely to need state support. I personally think it’s extremely sensible of your other half.

But you can see why it feels a bit rough to people who are also worried about redundancy but weren't furloughed and so didn't have any opportunity to build up extra money and had to actually work at their jobs to earn their money all year? Because I can, and it's why I think the OP needs to keep pretty quiet because you can't expect most people to like what they're doing just because it's legal.

We have both been tax payers for 15+ years, so have put in a lot more than taken out

That;s highly unlikely

@upsidedownwavylegs

Anyone who has been furloughed presumably knows their job is at risk in the long term. I think it’s sensible to explore other prospects while you’re still in employment, rather than wait until you’re already in a difficult financial situation (which for most people would be literally immediately they lose their job).

Exactly this^

@snappyoldfart

Enjoy your money OP, as a director of a limited company I've received absolutely jack shit and the rules for directors is that they can't actually work aside from directors duties while claiming any aspect of furlough.

Because we are the frauds and tax avoiders "apparently" makes you wonder eh.

I've managed to keep all of my staff on 100% and use flex furlough, I'd be reconsidering their loyalty and ethics if I found they wanted to work for another firm while I've been supporting them and grafting to keep the business afloat.

As for taxes I've been paying their NI, corporation taxes and been a tax collector for VAT around the tune of 2.8mlion over the course of the business running, don't you think I also deserve some support?

So what he is doing is banking tax payers money for his rainy day fund? So I'm with your friend 100%

Like I said I know the rules inside out and he's not legally doing anything wrong but morally it's stinks, and don't be surprised if his employers have the same moral compass as me, because they maybe nice now but I promise you when it comes to redundancy he would be top of my list.

He should be staying home to avoid spreading the virus not taking tax payments money and lining your pockets.

Don’t be melodramatic. You know the advantages of being a limited company in normal years . It’s just this particular situation doesn’t favour you. You can’t have it both ways.

I've noticed since the pandemic started that there are lots of things we can do, but others won't be happy to hear about it being done. This stinks to me, so I would have just kept quiet about it.

I don't know what I would do it similar circs but!
Obeying the law is NOT the same as being ethical

I think people are forgetting this is a temporary job he is taking from a friend of a friend so the role will be back available once his other jobs ask him to return to work.

I love my taxpaying money going to this whilst my mental health is in bits trying to wfh full time look after 2 kids .... he is abusing the system yes and you should both be bloody ashamed

Out of curiosity why does he have a part-time job when he already has a full time job? That's unusual.

No, it's really not unusual - loads of people have to do it in order to make ends meet.

As somebody who has worked through all of this since March and is helping fund the furlough scheme, I think your friend has a valid point... I’m sure most of us would love to get 100% wages from not working in a job and then go get another and get paid from that too, but there are people with no jobs whatsoever at the moment. People who have no money coming in, but you are talking about what the future holds in 2021... what about those people who need help now? 🤷🏻‍♀️ That job could be a lifeline to another family.

The concept of furlough really makes people lose their shit. Your DH won't be in the right whatever the hell he does.

Previously, those who were furloughed got slammed for sitting on their arses doing nothing - even though it was their employer who chose to furlough them, not their own personal decision.

You've already said that there's no response to enquiries of voluntary work. So, rather than sit on his arse, your DH has taken a temporary job - with the blessing of his employers - until he can return to regular work. And it's perfectly permissible under the furlough rules.

I'm guessing the fact that he has to work two jobs means that a bit of extra financial security wouldn't go amiss OP? I can't blame him in the slightest for taking the opportunity to a) earn some extra money in these incredibly volatile economic times - who knows if his main job will survive? and b) it's far better for everyone's mental health to be doing something rather than just kicking around the house for potentially months at a time.

I mean, yes, it's a bit mad that the furlough scheme allows this but that's not the OP's fault, or her husband. I don't see how it's immoral - he's not the one who's applied for furlough - that was his employers. Not his decision. It's hardly as if he's applied for benefits and then found a loophole to earn secret cash. Furlough was forced on him and he's doing something to stay active, well and healthy - it's not his fault that the Tories couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery.

You all need to take your judgey pants off and give OP a break.

The government is encouraging people to work from home, those who cannot wfh are furloughed to keep them from coming into work and spreading the virus, that is the whole point, millions are at home, fed up, bored, stressed but they are doing so because we want this bloody pandemic over, surely going out to work when not necessary is defeating the object.

@DeftandGlory hardly melodramatic, I'm saying I didn't get any help, I didn't say I needed it.

I was also giving my opinion of how employers view furloughed staff for the OPs benefit.

The way the schemes have been set up massively favour PAYE and not the people who take the risks to create the jobs in the first place, there self employed have been sharper with the 50/50 rule as have new starters, so in total 3 million UK tax payers have been excluded from support.

And yet when this shit show is over everyone will be looking to the business owners to grow and employ? Without any support other than borrowing and loans?