Will the vaccinated 'oldies' become the new superspreaders?

[OnlyTeaForMe]

So, if people who have been vaccinated can still catch and pass on the virus (but not get so ill with it themselves) isn't there a chance that the active 75+ group will become the new superspreaders once they've been vaccinated?

I know several people in this age group who intend to get out there and live life to the full once they've been vaccinated, and I sense that people don't really understand that they still need to wear masks and social distance.

If they all start visiting family and friends and shopping and drop their guard, then surely they will begin to put the non-vaccinated at risk?

We're having this discussion at present. We have a relative in hospital (she was vaccinated earlier this month). Given the level of COVID transmission in hospitals, and given she's only had one dose, when she's discharged, she may need to isolate for 10 days to protect the ECV people who are also here. Trying to verify this and make appropriate arrangements is proving very difficult.

Transmission of chicken pox following vaccination is rare. We'd be winning if the coronavirus vaccines were only as efficient as the chicken pox vaccine in reducing onward transmission.

@Grobagsforever

Older people gave us Brexit, I won't be putting my faith in them to prioritise youngsters now!

This is!

@FourTeaFallOut

Transmission of chicken pox following vaccination is rare. We'd be winning if the coronavirus vaccines were only as efficient as the chicken pox vaccine in reducing onward transmission.

Is it actually rare or is it just considered a possibility whilst no case has ever been recorded of it happening, which is my understanding?

@Grobagsforever

But the WHOLE POINT is that COVID kills old folk, NOT young folk. So once these vulnerable oldies are vaccinated we CAN ALL GO BACK TO NORMAL.

We cannot continue to live this half life to protect the handful of young people that get sick from COVID. We don't do it for any other virus.

Life is never going to be risk free. Why can't people get their heads round that? No one is owed total protection from COVID, it's about reducing risk to acceptable levels so life can be worth living again.

The issue is surely that a lot of people will be vaccinated before all the vulnerable are vaccinated. I agree that we'll all be able to go back to normal once the vulnerable priority groups for the vaccination are done, and have to learn to deal with the risk that remains, but the problem is the meantime - it could take six months to get there.

Well the depth of my knowledge extends no further than a quick, flawed Google, so ....... yeah, seems I'm a purveyor of duff information.

No it won't be the elderly it will be the NHS staff.

I don’t think they know this yet so are erring on the side of caution. I would be surprised if you could pass it on once vaccinated but as they don’t yet have the data they are being rightly cautious.

@Grobagsforever

Older people gave us Brexit, I won't be putting my faith in them to prioritise youngsters now!

When they Blame the OLD, how old is OLD ?

If 65 and over is OLD, then with 11 million voters 65 and over and 39.7 million registered voters UNDER 65, the OLD cannot be blamed
If 45 and over is OLD, then with 26.8 million voters 45 and over and 24 million registered voters UNDER 45 the REMAIN vote missed out on 8 million possible extra votes from the 18-44 age group who could have swung the result to REMAIN so easily.
If 31 and over is OLD, then with 39.6 million voters 31 and over and 11.2 million registered voters UNDER 31, the OLD contributed 5 Million to the Remain Vote, if all the young were interested enough to vote and voted Remain.
If 25 and over is OLD, then with 44.9 million voters 25 and over and 5.9 million registered voters UNDER 25, the OLD contributed 10 Million to the Remain Vote, if all the young were interested enough to vote and voted Remain.
Headlines like these show the young blaming the old.

"if people who have been vaccinated can still catch and pass on the virus "

The word "if" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence.

It doesn't make sense that non-symptomatic people would be superspreaders. Find me a case of a person who was completely without symptoms & was a super-spreader (assume that means they gave covid to at least 6 other people all while they had no symptoms whatsoever).

@Grobagsforever

But the WHOLE POINT is that COVID kills old folk, NOT young folk. So once these vulnerable oldies are vaccinated we CAN ALL GO BACK TO NORMAL.

We cannot continue to live this half life to protect the handful of young people that get sick from COVID. We don't do it for any other virus.

Life is never going to be risk free. Why can't people get their heads round that? No one is owed total protection from COVID, it's about reducing risk to acceptable levels so life can be worth living again.

100% this! And repeat and repeat and repeat .....

@Nc135

I don’t think they know this yet so are erring on the side of caution. I would be surprised if you could pass it on once vaccinated but as they don’t yet have the data they are being rightly cautious.

There's also the probably more realistic problem of the effect on wider compliance if there are a group who aren't subject to the restrictions - if the vaccinated are allowed to gather in groups, socialise indoors, etc then even if it's perfectly logical that they're allowed to and other people aren't, it'll massively impact on compliance if people see others getting freedoms that they weren't given the opportunity to have.

There's also the probably more realistic problem of the effect on wider compliance if there are a group who aren't subject to the restrictions - if the vaccinated are allowed to gather in groups, socialise indoors, etc then even if it's perfectly logical that they're allowed to and other people aren't, it'll massively impact on compliance if people see others getting freedoms that they weren't given the opportunity to have.

Yes, how can it be seen to be fair that a priveledged group who got the vaccine early can return to freedom, when those who were restricted largely to protect them, can't?

Vaccination is going to hugely affect behaviour, both of the vaccinated and others.

It doesn't make sense that non-symptomatic people would be superspreaders. Find me a case of a person who was completely without symptoms & was a super-spreader (assume that means they gave covid to at least 6 other people all while they had no symptoms whatsoever).

But we've all been told that the asymptomatic are a great risk - if you start saying that you're no risk if you're asymptomatic a lot of university students will start wondering why they spent a lot of last term in isolation when so many of them were entirely asymptomatic and would never have known they had it if not for random testing.

@ragged
A number of studies have suggested that there are asymptomatic ‘speech super-emitters’ who emit a higher level of aerosol particles through their speech.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7263215/

@Grobagsforever

But the WHOLE POINT is that COVID kills old folk, NOT young folk. So once these vulnerable oldies are vaccinated we CAN ALL GO BACK TO NORMAL.

We cannot continue to live this half life to protect the handful of young people that get sick from COVID. We don't do it for any other virus.

Life is never going to be risk free. Why can't people get their heads round that? No one is owed total protection from COVID, it's about reducing risk to acceptable levels so life can be worth living again.

I agree. If this virus affected everyone to the extend it affect young people (I.e. hardly at all) then we wouldnt be doing lockdowns etc. Its only because its dangerous for old people and the vulnerable. If they're not vulnerable any more, theres no need!

a lot of university students will start wondering why they spent a lot of last term in isolation when so many of them were entirely asymptomatic and would never have known they had it if not for random testing I would be wondering that anyway to be honest

My parents will be out there 'making up for lost time'. They have absolutely no compassion for anyone in a different situation. They will spin travel, holidays, pubs as opening back up the economy.
They won't give a shiney shit if you or your kids catch it, they will twist it to be your fault.
It's been an interesting few months hearing their take on the situation.

We’re planning on hanging out lots with our older relatives (parents, aunts uncles). They’re all due to be vaccinated by end of Jan and all want to get back to normal- looking after our children, celebrating events we’ve missed. Staying at each other’s homes and going on holidays they’ve missed. All are nearer the end of their lives with health conditions and don’t want to waste any more time.

So yes I guess you’re right, this group will become the super spreaders. But they will not be stopped. They are expecting freedom once they’ve been vaccinated.

I do wish people would make up their minds. One minute it is all the old and vulnerable should lock themselves away while everyone else gets on with their lives, the next it is elderly, vaccinated people risking everyone else's lives by super spreading.

As far as I know from people who have been vaccinated already, they are made well aware that they still have to take precautions until a good proportion of people have been vaccinated. They just have a bit of reassurance that should they contract Covid it should not be as bad as it might have been.

The vast majority of the older people I know - and I know a lot, because I work with them - are not only complying with the rules, they are staying well within them. They have been far more cautious in practice than they were required to by law.

I don't see them suddenly becoming law breakers. I do see them starting to do things they were allowed to do but denied themselves.

@XmasSkies2020

We’re planning on hanging out lots with our older relatives (parents, aunts uncles). They’re all due to be vaccinated by end of Jan and all want to get back to normal- looking after our children, celebrating events we’ve missed. Staying at each other’s homes and going on holidays they’ve missed. All are nearer the end of their lives with health conditions and don’t want to waste any more time.

So yes I guess you’re right, this group will become the super spreaders. But they will not be stopped. They are expecting freedom once they’ve been vaccinated.

I can understand why they'd feel like that, but I think at that point I, and a lot of people, would really struggle to continue to limit my own contact with my non-vulnerable family and friends in the way I'm required to do now 'for the greater good' if it turned out that so many of the people I'm protecting wouldn't bother doing the same if they weren't personally vulnerable.

@mommybunny

I may be missing the point of the thread, but does anyone know of an example of a vaccine that prevents serious illness but does not prevent transmission?

Flu jabs given to adults, you can still carry the flu is your nasal passages. Although because you don’t get as serve symptoms you don’t pass it on as much as someone who is symptomatic

Where the nasal spray given to young children does stop spread.