Schools could be closed until Feb half term!

[DfEisashambles]

Reported in the DM. I’m surprised at this and don’t think it’ll go ahead.

Not sure what the ‘training’ required for teams/meets/hangouts is? We use it at work and have never been trained. It’s reasonably intuitive, no?

We had training but I will admit that despite having formerly worked in IT, I did not find all of it immediately intuitive. I have worked hard also to try the children in my class to be relatively independent using the tools so that they can (hopefully) bug their parents less if the time comes...

At this point, I don't think it's really about whether teachers get vaccinated or not.

If students are not vaccinated, then we are going to have exponential spread when they take this new, much more contagious variant back to their families. The important thing isn't about protecting a single group of people, the important thing is about limiting spread as a whole and ensuring that we are not overwhelmed by the number of seriously ill and dying.

Sure, you can vaccinate teachers, but you cannot limit the virus to circulating only amongst students.

I expect the gig is leaking info to test the water.

It would be a good idea to go online rather than cancel education, especially for year 11 and 13 kids. Maybe schools could open just for them and the rest go online.

Tov needs to solve the issue of internet and PC access for primary and secondary kids though. I expect uni students are all equipped.

The thing is, what I am not hearing in this debate is:

'How can we make schools as safe and as difficult to transmit Covid in as humanly possible for students and their families, as well as for all school staff, so that we can keep schools open?'

I know of no school staff who want schools closed. Nobody knows better the harm done to some students when the school was closed, the difficulties of delivering education remotely, the number of families struggling to house, clothe and feed their children as a result of the pandemic. We see it every day.

Equally, we all see our ECV colleagues standing in front of non SD classes of over 30, less than 2m away without any form of protection, and ECV 1:1 TAs in close contact with SEN children for many hours at a time, and we fear for those who test positive and those who end up in hospital.

What we want announced are safety measures. PPE, money for extra cleaning and sanitising, and for long-term cover staff to replace ECV staff. Immediate whole class or cohort testing for every positive case, delivered either by existing test centres of a manned mobile testing centre set up in school grounds in response to a call. Immediate funding and a team of government-employed contractors for the building repairs that would improve ventilation, and funding to cover our additional heating costs.

We would also like delivery of sufficient IT equipment that could immediately be given to all students on the first day that isolation starts, so that no family need be left behind for periods of self-isolation.

Those are the announcements i am listening for, not whether schools are open or closed.

@cantkeepawayforever

The thing is, what I am not hearing in this debate is:

'How can we make schools as safe and as difficult to transmit Covid in as humanly possible for students and their families, as well as for all school staff, so that we can keep schools open?'

I know of no school staff who want schools closed. Nobody knows better the harm done to some students when the school was closed, the difficulties of delivering education remotely, the number of families struggling to house, clothe and feed their children as a result of the pandemic. We see it every day.

Equally, we all see our ECV colleagues standing in front of non SD classes of over 30, less than 2m away without any form of protection, and ECV 1:1 TAs in close contact with SEN children for many hours at a time, and we fear for those who test positive and those who end up in hospital.

What we want announced are safety measures. PPE, money for extra cleaning and sanitising, and for long-term cover staff to replace ECV staff. Immediate whole class or cohort testing for every positive case, delivered either by existing test centres of a manned mobile testing centre set up in school grounds in response to a call. Immediate funding and a team of government-employed contractors for the building repairs that would improve ventilation, and funding to cover our additional heating costs.

We would also like delivery of sufficient IT equipment that could immediately be given to all students on the first day that isolation starts, so that no family need be left behind for periods of self-isolation.

Those are the announcements i am listening for, not whether schools are open or closed.

Here here!

Great post, thank you.

I wish the government would listen.

Cantkeepawayforever. Totally agree with you.such a shame your not pm. You have my vote

@EmmanuelleMakro

People saying teachers should be vaccinated are entitled missing the point of the vaccination programme (and lockdown/tiers) These measures are not to prevent people catching it, or to ‘eradicate it’ but to relieve pressure points on ‘our NHS’. So it fursn’t matter if there are people catching it as long as they are the groups that are least likely to show symptoms (children) or be hospitalised)people under 80 -which will surely be most teachers..

What would you say if I applied your statement to healthcare workers or care home workers? Of course it would be crazy to suggest that these groups of people don't need the vaccine as we need all of them in post as far as is possible. It will soon be the case that there really aren't enough teachers well enough to be at school to keep them open.

@Noellodee

At this point, I don't think it's really about whether teachers get vaccinated or not.

If students are not vaccinated, then we are going to have exponential spread when they take this new, much more contagious variant back to their families. The important thing isn't about protecting a single group of people, the important thing is about limiting spread as a whole and ensuring that we are not overwhelmed by the number of seriously ill and dying.

Sure, you can vaccinate teachers, but you cannot limit the virus to circulating only amongst students.

Yes but you can keep schools open by protecting staff from the virus as much as possible by vaccinating them?

@cantkeepawayforever

The thing is, what I am not hearing in this debate is:

'How can we make schools as safe and as difficult to transmit Covid in as humanly possible for students and their families, as well as for all school staff, so that we can keep schools open?'

I know of no school staff who want schools closed. Nobody knows better the harm done to some students when the school was closed, the difficulties of delivering education remotely, the number of families struggling to house, clothe and feed their children as a result of the pandemic. We see it every day.

Equally, we all see our ECV colleagues standing in front of non SD classes of over 30, less than 2m away without any form of protection, and ECV 1:1 TAs in close contact with SEN children for many hours at a time, and we fear for those who test positive and those who end up in hospital.

What we want announced are safety measures. PPE, money for extra cleaning and sanitising, and for long-term cover staff to replace ECV staff. Immediate whole class or cohort testing for every positive case, delivered either by existing test centres of a manned mobile testing centre set up in school grounds in response to a call. Immediate funding and a team of government-employed contractors for the building repairs that would improve ventilation, and funding to cover our additional heating costs.

We would also like delivery of sufficient IT equipment that could immediately be given to all students on the first day that isolation starts, so that no family need be left behind for periods of self-isolation.

Those are the announcements i am listening for, not whether schools are open or closed.

I’m a teacher and agree with this x1000. The government have made it a binary choice - open or closed (and we all know schools never really closed) because they don’t want to spend the money it would take to make schools safe.

I’d much rather they made schools safe - smaller classes to allow for social distancing, air filtration systems, masks in classrooms etc. - rather than going online but they won’t, so this is what we’re left with.

Local secondary school is closed to all pupils for three days next week to allow for planning of distance learning. The announcement came on the last day of term so, obviously, no time for planning.

From the noises coming on the media he could be ahead of the game if all schools are going to be closed.

@PatchworkElmer

I won’t cope if this happens. I understand why it might need to, but I won’t cope. We have no childcare bubble for support, DH and I both have very busy jobs (like most people). We clung on by our fingernails during the last lockdown, but the thought of doing it again is enough to make me tearful.

Going to work unprotected every day, with confirmed cases at the front of my classroom has been quite enough to make me tearful. It's about time our daily reality was acknowledged.

That is exactly why I want my childrens teachers vaccinated. To protect the kids and our families those virus spreading germs teachers.

And at some point it will happen. For everyone. But not everyone can have it at once. Which is why they are prioritising it.

[quote BelleSausage]@psychomath

I think it’s pretty insulting to all the curriculum planning, training, CPD and professional standards for teachers to reduce it down to the level of being a parental convenience.

A) It devalues the educational aspect- which is the primary reason for good attendance. This attitude goes hand in hand with those who don’t understand why they can’t take their kids out for two week holidays in the middle of term.
B) It is not what our education system was set up to do. School is terrible childcare. It starts too late and finishes too early to cover most people’s working day (including other teachers).

What had happened is that as the government wanted both parents to be working and didn’t want to pay for the subsidised childcare to make this possible, it has increasingly fallen to schools to fill the gap in an adhoc way.

The problem with this system is it cannot air any extra strain/ look at the moaning around snow days, school holidays and building maintenance closures.

This government has successfully cut, cut, cut until schools now provide childcare, SEND services, EdPsych services, social care services, mental health services. But with the same budget and staffing they always had.

School is education. It became childcare by default. And it is an insult to us and our kids that this is the shit situation we find ourselves in.

So, yes school is childcare. But I see no reason to be happy with that woeful situation. The only people is truly benefits is the government.[/quote]
I do actually agree with a lot of what you're saying here and yes, ultimately the problem stems from the way our society is structured, the lack of support for families, the higher cost of living and (arguably) expectations we have of living standards, that mean most families need both parents working - if both parents even live together in the first place. The burden being placed on schools to do everything is too much. But that doesn't change the fact that right now, many many parents of young children do need some place for their children to be while they're at work. We can have all the abstract debates we like about childcare subsidies and whether having a stay at home parent should be the norm again, but that doesn't help a parent who's worried about being made redundant in two weeks' time because there's no-one to look after their children while they work.

The childcare issue isn't coming up repeatedly because parents don't care about our health or their children's education. Like I said, if schools agreed to look after children for ten hours a day for free but without actually teaching them anything, I don't think most parents would think "Wow, what a great deal". It's coming up because someone who's facing job loss and attendant problems like poverty and homelessness in the immediate future - like, within a matter of weeks - is going to prioritise that over the possibility that their child's teacher might catch an illness that the vast majority of people recover from anyway, and also over preventing the wider spread of covid in society. In much the same way that a vulnerable teacher would agree in principle that child abuse is a terrible thing, but that doesn't mean they want to personally risk their health for the sake of keeping schools open, just on the possibility that some of their pupils might not be safe at home.

I don't think the onus is or should be on schools, and obviously not on individual teachers, to find solutions to parents' problems. I also think we should be making schools safer, and that that should have happened ages ago, rather than the government waiting for cases to increase massively and then going "oops, sorry". But stamping our feet and insisting that we're not just free childcare because we have degrees goddammit is not helping anything, and it's getting really frustrating to see people making that argument repeatedly as though it's an actual rebuttal to parents who are panicking about being left high and dry.

Going to work unprotected every day, with confirmed cases at the front of my classroom has been quite enough to make me tearful. It's about time our daily reality was acknowledged.

This.

My daily reality is sick anxiety.

Mobile on my desk - will Reception message to say that the child who is not in today has tested positive so we all have to go home NOW? Or send out the daily e-mail to tell me which staff are awaiting tests due to contact inside or outside school, and therefore which staff must be redeployed to cover them, leaving SEN children unsupported? Will my DC's school text to say I must pick them up immediately for isolation? Will my DH text from his (educational) workplace about an outbreak that has put him at risk?

Ears open for a cough, eyes open for a child who seems warm or shivery. Planning and re-planning - for everyone in school, for everyone at home, for both. Dealing with many SEN children whose support is not available because most other children's services are delayed or not working or unable to come in to see the child. Dealing with families who have lost jobs and livelihoods. Watching children sent home to isolate from neighbouring schools streaming down the road at any hour of the day, identifying which of their siblings I teach.

All the while cold, obsessively handwashing, and lonely. Very little contact with other school adults, and no contact outside school except with my household, as I teach and then isolate for others' safety.

Yes, I am tearful. Quite often, really.

@SueEllenMishke, no one is asking businesses to offer 'endless flexibility'. Schools have held society together for the last four months with no mitigations. That is about to fall apart, given the new, more contagious variant. The next couple of months are going to demand more creative ways of working from all of us.

Your dance class is neither childcare nor any comparison with what's going on in education.

@cantkeepawayforever
Apart from my children being older, I could have written all those words myself. That’s exactly how I feel

[quote SaltyAF]@SueEllenMishke, no one is asking businesses to offer 'endless flexibility'. Schools have held society together for the last four months with no mitigations. That is about to fall apart, given the new, more contagious variant. The next couple of months are going to demand more creative ways of working from all of us.

Your dance class is neither childcare nor any comparison with what's going on in education.[/quote]
The dance class comment was in response to an earlier post. I was not comparing it to schools.

I work at a university- I'm teaching in person as much as I can. My employer has been as flexible as they can but there is a limit to this - as there is with all businesses and organisations.

We (everyone, not teachers specifically) can't upend how society functions overnight and then just shrug at parents and say "well it's your problem, you sort it out"
But parents, the wider business community, government included are doing exactly that to schools 'shrug..well its your problem, you sort it out'

*What are your workplaces doing to support?

They’re fighting to survive and avoid making their staff redundant actually.

Exactly. Not all workplaces are able to offer endless flexibility AND remain productive.

Lots of workplaces are being flexible but there is a limit to this*

And ditto for schools, especially those that went into this with deficit budgets that they are legally bound to put back in the black. Yet, parents, the government and wider business expect that schools can do all of the above.

There must be companies out there that can offer support and flexibility to its employees, no one ever mentions it 'close the schools my employer has retrained me to...so that I can work flexibly at home/my employer has changed the hours of the working day/ given flexi leave/asked for volunteers to work extra to make up the shortfall etc etc
.I certainly worked with schools to find volunteer teachers who gave up their holidays (unpaid) to run childcare hubs for key worker/vulnerable children.

We need to work together or there will be very little left. As I keep saying, schools can't do this alone.

It's a sensible move.

@Kaliorphic

That is exactly why I want my childrens teachers vaccinated. To protect the kids and our families those virus spreading germs teachers.

And at some point it will happen. For everyone. But not everyone can have it at once. Which is why they are prioritising it.

I completely agree with you ByersRd and everyone who has posted in the same vein.

People reasonably tearing their hair out that their employer wants them on site even though schools may need to close, and criticism is aimed at the teaching profession, not the government for not supporting employers either financially or in other ways.

cantkeepawayforever exactly. Teachers have been raising the profile of how unsafe schools are for months. They're invariably met with 'oh my child's school hasn't had any cases, they're obviously doing covid protection right!' or 'schools must stay open, non negotiable, education is too important to lose more of.'

It's bizarre that however often teachers say repeatedly that they want schools to stay open but they also want a safe working environment, and that the two need go hand in hand, it falls on deaf ears.

That’s a bit cryptic, but I think you’re trying to say I’m selfish that after a 3 year gap I’ve finally got a job I would love to be able to keep? I realise there are many facets to this but I am allowed to be personally disappointed & worried about the impact on my job, amongst many other aspects.

Yes, school is important. I wouldn’t have stuck at it for 32 years and counting through a whole load of shit if I didn’t believe that. However, as PPs have said, is it more important to keep it in person than to have some sort of economy going? Is ‘schools open at all costs’ sustainable?
Safe schools would help drop numbers and keep lockdowns/tiers to a minimum until the vaccine gets to everyone. Schools open to all will result in endless closures if schools, but also endless lockdowns. It is no longer either/or.

@cantkeepawayforever

The thing is, what I am not hearing in this debate is:

'How can we make schools as safe and as difficult to transmit Covid in as humanly possible for students and their families, as well as for all school staff, so that we can keep schools open?'

I know of no school staff who want schools closed. Nobody knows better the harm done to some students when the school was closed, the difficulties of delivering education remotely, the number of families struggling to house, clothe and feed their children as a result of the pandemic. We see it every day.

Equally, we all see our ECV colleagues standing in front of non SD classes of over 30, less than 2m away without any form of protection, and ECV 1:1 TAs in close contact with SEN children for many hours at a time, and we fear for those who test positive and those who end up in hospital.

What we want announced are safety measures. PPE, money for extra cleaning and sanitising, and for long-term cover staff to replace ECV staff. Immediate whole class or cohort testing for every positive case, delivered either by existing test centres of a manned mobile testing centre set up in school grounds in response to a call. Immediate funding and a team of government-employed contractors for the building repairs that would improve ventilation, and funding to cover our additional heating costs.

We would also like delivery of sufficient IT equipment that could immediately be given to all students on the first day that isolation starts, so that no family need be left behind for periods of self-isolation.

Those are the announcements i am listening for, not whether schools are open or closed.

Just every word of this.

MAKE OUR SCHOOLS SAFE.

It is wholly disingenuous to demand that schools be made ‘safe’ -it is no more possible than to insist all roads be made ‘safe’ -there is always a trade off between improving safety and not over engineeering it to a ridiculous level where it becomes not fit for purpose. Schools that are online or rota-img with half size classes are not fit for purpose. Making school children wear masks in classes diminishes their educational experience do it is not fit for purpose. Teachers (I an one) are not in the age group where we round be likely to take up an intensive care bed, so should not be vaccinated ahead of those that are more likely to.
I hope the gvt holds its nerve and that schools re-open for all pupils by 11th so that we can get back to the job of educating them as they deserve.