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Covid

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Original poster

DS’s dad visiting him during coronavirus tier 3/4 measures

51 replies

WashingMachineCrisis · 27/12/2020 08:11

Hi everyone. I’ll try to keep this brief but am hoping to get some help dealing with a difficult ex-H.

We separated over a year and a half ago and since then, despite earning over twice what I do, he’s pleaded poverty and has been sofa surfing and coming to my house to see our 5 year old as and when it suits him. He’s a shit dad and remains almost wholly distant except for the odd hour or so visit but that’s for a whole separate thread.

He’s currently in a tier 3 area (due to go to tier 4 in a couple of days I think) and wants to travel up the country to see our son in a day or so. He’s been staying with his family and I’m not keen on him being here to be honest, but have never previously said anything to him for two reasons; one I don’t want to stand in the way of him having a relationship with his son and two, I’m quite wary of him (not physically as much but I don’t like his nasty side when he doesn’t get what he wants).

I know I should tell him no but I can’t see any guidance around separated parents visiting their children in the old family home. If we’re breaking the rules I know he wouldn’t pay the fine and that would be left to me too.

Is there anyone here that can advise me? Thanks everyone.

OP posts:

MrsBrunch · 27/12/2020 13:04

He can't come in your house but to be honest, you should have stopped that ages ago anyway. Just use this time to make the break and say all future visits must be outside your home, regardless of whether it's a covid restriction or not.

He won't be the only Dad going to the park, for walks and having takeaway fast food once a week. Maybe it will give him the incentive to get his own place.

Aalvarino · 27/12/2020 13:32

It wont help to reference the current situation and restrictions if he is One Of Those Types. The legislation had clear exemptions to the mo household gatherings provisions, in England, to enable child contact. Does not mean its advisable but it isnt unlawful and a controlling plonker is liable to pick holes in any such defence. A simple 'no, my house, you arent coming in' by email cannot be challenged unless the property is jointly owned or leased.

DecemberStar · 27/12/2020 13:42

The guidance states that children can travel between houses, not that parents can enter each other's houses.

LitPeach · 27/12/2020 13:50

The guidance is very clear that restrictions on travel and household visits do not apply to child contact.

As such, he has every right to see his DS inside your home. He may well seek a legal order allowing him to do so and you haven’t a leg to stand on.

Jobsharenightmare · 27/12/2020 14:04

Haven't read all the replies OP but in our case we went off this

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8901/

DecemberStar · 27/12/2020 14:18

He has absolutely no legal right to enter the OP's home, for any reason!

DecemberStar · 27/12/2020 14:19

Some of the replies on here sound very much like Fathers for Justice campaigning.....

StacySoloman · 27/12/2020 15:10

@LitPeach

The guidance is very clear that restrictions on travel and household visits do not apply to child contact.

As such, he has every right to see his DS inside your home. He may well seek a legal order allowing him to do so and you haven’t a leg to stand on.

Why would he have a right to see his DS in the OP's home?

Aalvarino · 27/12/2020 15:43

@DecemberStar I certainly have nothing to do with FFJ and would be very happy for the OP if she never had to facilitate contact again!

Guidance does not refer to entering households but the underpinning regulations do. I can give you the legislative reference if you like

Aalvarino · 27/12/2020 15:45

He may or may not have a right to enter the home, depending in ownership and any orders in place. If she is the sole owner or tenant he has no right to enter at all of course.

DecemberStar · 27/12/2020 16:31

@Aalvarino do you mean Covid regulations or normal child contact regulations?

I confess I had missed in the OP that it's the former marital home, apologies, but surely after 18 myths of separation he can't have a right to enter against the OP's will??

My ex apparently had the right to change the locks on our jointly owned home about 5 days after I left......

Aalvarino · 27/12/2020 17:09

@DecemberStar I'm referring to the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations (2020/1374), as amended, and specifically, Part 2 of Schedule 3A (which relates to tier 4 restrictions on gatherings in private dwellings).

Original poster

WashingMachineCrisis · 27/12/2020 17:22

Surely I don’t have to let him enter my home? He’s a nasty controlling piece of work so if this was true I’m sure he’d have done it by now. House is mine and in my name only.

OP posts:

Aalvarino · 27/12/2020 17:26

No -sorry for any confusion, I was just providing the regs to show that there are exceptions in the COVID regulations (the ones that cover meeting with others inside your house....) to enable parents to see children they don't live with inside a home. The issue of whether he can legally come in (notwithstanding anything to do with COVID) is a separate one - sounds like he has absolutely no right at all, and that you should refuse him!

Aalvarino · 27/12/2020 17:29

And I'm sorry you have to deal with this piece of work..... who sounds like he might flounce and claim that you not letting him in is evidence of you frustrating contact. Which would be absolute rubbish, by the way, and which you can ignore! If he can't afford to house himself, it seems unlikely he'd have the gumption or finances to take you to court for a child arrangements order.

LitPeach · 27/12/2020 17:30

You seem to me OP to be offering him contact on your terms only in a manner that you want him to refuse so you can then paint him as an uncaring father.

DC need both parents. Rather than putting barriers up, you should be seeing what you can do to facilitate your DC seeing his father.

Your ex would be well within his rights to consult a solicitor if you’re being deliberately awkward or uncooperative.

Aalvarino · 27/12/2020 17:30

My point being, don't tell him he can't come in because COVID, because that's open to challenge and doesn't reflect the law. Tell him he can't come in because it's your house and it makes you uncomfortable.

Aalvarino · 27/12/2020 17:33

Let him consult a solicitor. They will send him on his merry way if he bleats "but she won't let me come into her house to have contact there! waaaah". They will tell him to sort himself some accommodation out, or take the child out and about. Not the OP's problem, and she has good reason not to want him inside, by the sounds of it.

StacySoloman · 27/12/2020 17:33

@LitPeach

You seem to me OP to be offering him contact on your terms only in a manner that you want him to refuse so you can then paint him as an uncaring father.

DC need both parents. Rather than putting barriers up, you should be seeing what you can do to facilitate your DC seeing his father.

Your ex would be well within his rights to consult a solicitor if you’re being deliberately awkward or uncooperative.

Isn't offering for a nrp to collect the child from their home for contact the absolute standard and norm?

Facilitating contact doesn't mean inviting an ex into your home. It means making the child available.

DecemberStar · 27/12/2020 17:41

@Aalvarino I'm still confused. I presume you were referring to this part of the regs

^Exception 9: children
(13) Exception 9 is that it is reasonably necessary for P to leave or be outside P’s home—
(a) for the purposes of arrangements for access to, and contact between, parents and a child where the child does not live in the same household as their parents or one of their parents;^

but there's nothing about one parent entering the other's home? Or is there another part I've missed? Thanks

Aalvarino · 27/12/2020 17:54

@DecemberStar:

Para 3 to Sch3A sets out the general rules on gatherings in private dwellings in t4 areas - i.e., mostly banned unless exceptions apply. The exceptions are set out in paras 6 and 7. Exception 13 relates to children:

(18) Exception 13 is that the gathering is reasonably necessary—
(a) for the purposes of arrangements for access to, and contact between, parents and children where the children do not live in the same household as their parents or one of their parents...

Aalvarino · 27/12/2020 17:57

The bit you quoted is about reasonable excuses to leave one's home, not about exceptions to the indoor or outdoor gathering restrictions.

Anyway, that's all got rather academic. OP, I hope you sort it out with the ex. It's hard when one partner is erm, slightly unreasonable not you, by the sounds of it , and couple that with the unreasonable one having a sub-optimal living situation.....

OverTheRainbow88 · 27/12/2020 18:08

Can you suggest he takes DS out to the local playground for an hour or So?

Original poster

WashingMachineCrisis · 27/12/2020 21:05

You seem to me OP to be offering him contact on your terms only in a manner that you want him to refuse so you can then paint him as an uncaring father.

DC need both parents. Rather than putting barriers up, you should be seeing what you can do to facilitate your DC seeing his father

Your ex would be well within his rights to consult a solicitor if you’re being deliberately awkward or uncooperative

Genuinely wondering what I’ve done that you think is awkward and uncooperative @LitPeach

I’ve allowed him to see his child whenever he likes; he’s been able to come into my home when he likes and I still have to look after my son as he won’t actually do anything when he’s here. Half of the time he doesn’t turn up or will go missing for weeks. If I told him he could no longer come whenever the hell he felt like turning up it would still mean he could take his child out. Please tell me how you think that’s unfair? I’m worried he will come here with Covid after mixing with all his extended family and trust me, he wouldn’t be around to have our son if I was ill.

OP posts:

Original poster

WashingMachineCrisis · 27/12/2020 21:08

Thanks everyone for the help I have really appreciated it. It looks like I wouldn’t be hit with a fine at least. It’s also nice to hear I’m not alone.

I definitely need to sort this at some point. He earns enough to get himself a place but then again he would actually have to do child care if he had him on his own which I don’t think he would be so keen on.

Enjoy the rest of the Christmas season

OP posts:

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