Sorry - an "am I allowed?" question!

[Twixmasdilema]

Last week, before we found out we were tier 4, I booked a visit to a National Trust property just over an hour's drive away for between Xmas and New Year. It'll be DH's birthday and, as our original plans had already been scrapped, wanted to go somewhere different from the usual more local places for a winter walk.

We're now Tier 4, as is the place we've booked. Should we still go? I've tried searching rules and it just says you shouldn't travel outside tier 4. I know you can go out for exercise as much as you like but doesn't stipulate a distance.

It's a vast property with just toilets & cafe open for takeaway. It'll be just our household, we will travel by car and, from previous experience, the NT are very hot on Covid procedures, hence the need to book to limit numbers.

We'll be home all week with just walks to local open spaces (which will be heaving no doubt) so can't see the harm in our plans but also don't want to be a rule breaker. Any thoughts?
Thanks.

I just don't know, if it's tier 4 to tier 4 it's confusing although we're supposed to stay at home 🤦

We have something booked for Jan at an RHS property. They're T4, as are we. At the moment as far as I can see the event is still on.
Like you we'd be one household, distancing would be implemented, and visitor numbers limited. We'd be outdoors for the whole time.
I think if it was still going ahead at the attraction and we had all been well (as effectively we're not seeing anyone at all between now and then) we'll be going.

I think it depends if it’s in your area or not as we aren’t supposed to leave our areas.

Not sure if it’s allowed but I would do it. Exercise and fresh air are essential for mental health and well being so arguably it’s an essential trip? We are T3 and have a national trust booking in a different T3 area about 45 mins away next week. I m not cancelling it.

If the place is still open then it must be allowed otherwise national trust would shut for being in tier 4

If it's still open then yes. We only have parks and open spaces left!

We're in tier 3. The government website says "where possible, you should stay local and avoid travelling outside your local area, meaning your village or town, or part of a city".

From the government website
If you live in a Tier 4 area, you must not leave your home unless you have a reasonable excuse (e.g. for work or education purposes). If you need to travel you should stay local - meaning avoiding travelling outside of your village, town or the part of a city where you live - and look to reduce the number of journeys you make overall.

And

outdoor recreation or exercise. This should be done locally wherever possible, but you can travel a short distance within your Tier 4 area to do so if necessary (for example, to access an open space)

So, if it's out side your Tier 4 area you cannot travel to it.

National Trust are remaining open for local people to visit. If people start abusing the rules they will close, like they did in March.

I have cancelled a NT visit in the same city as it's not my part of the city. Hurts to not have it to look forward to I'll be honest, but I feel that's in line with the Tier 4 advice (much of which is law, rather than advisory)

If it’s still open, I would go. As you say, the law doesn’t require you to stay local, or give a distance that you are allowed to travel.
Obviously going long distances for something wouldn’t be great, but this sounds like somewhere where you won’t be in any close contact with others. If you don’t stop for petrol it’s no different to driving 5 mins up the road for a walk.

What happened to “stay at home”? Is that not the message anymore?

No, the rules are very clear and available online. Its meant to be no travel bar essential reasons and for exercise a short drive allowed within your own tier only.

I would get in touch with the place and ask for their guidance on it. See what they say.

I would go, it looks like that is that you should stay local not must stay local and it is still tier 4, tier 4 can't go to tier 3

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

No, the rules are very clear and available online. Its meant to be no travel bar essential reasons and for exercise a short drive allowed within your own tier only.

Nowhere in the legislation is a short drive specified. Exercise alone or with members of your household is a legal exception in the law to the stay at home rule and it isn’t restricted by distance, length of exercise, type of exercise etc.

Nowhere in the law does it say you can’t leave your area if you live in tier 4 either - you can’t leave the house unless for specific reasons, but if those reasons mean you leave tier 4 then that’s legal (eg if your supermarket is just over the border in tier 2).

I find the difference between the law and the guidance really annoying, and I have a general dislike of politicians saying things as if they are the law when they aren’t, it’s misleading. If they want everyone to follow the guidance, make it the law (like when they changed the law on gatherings from 30 people to 6, when the guidance had always been 6 - why on earth wasn’t the law always 6!) Then it could actually be policed, at the moment there are so many loopholes in the legislation you can get away with pretty much anything. Which I suspect may be the point, because they can point to it when an MP is found doing something they shouldn’t.

Thanks - Not 100% decided, but leaning towards going.

I agree with those who said the difference between law & guidance is confusing and what constitutes too far is open to interpretation. There are a few local/localish open spaces we could go to instead but I know for a fact they will be busy with social distancing more difficult, especially this year as people can't do much else to pass the time. Unlike the NT, there's no control over numbers. Having been to several NT places this year I know we'll be safer there than the local park as they are very strict with the rules and restrict the numbers by only allowing pre-booked tickets. I doubt we'll even use the takeaway cafe as tends to be rather overpriced!

Allowed. It’s ok the tier 4 guidance under “Meeting others safely”

You can exercise or visit a public outdoor place:

by yourself
with the people you live with,
with your support bubble,
or, when on your own, with 1 person from another household.
Children under 5, and up to two carers for a person with a disability who needs continuous care are not counted towards the outdoors gatherings limit.

Public outdoor places include:

parks, beaches, countryside accessible to the public, forests
public gardens (whether or not you pay to enter them)
allotments
the grounds of a heritage site
outdoor sports courts and facilities
playgrounds

I understand the not travelling from a higher tier to a lower tier or vice versa, but if you are in the same tier I can't see the issue. I've got lots of friends who are running and cycling not only over county/borough borders, but also over tier borders. But I also know people refusing to run from Havant to Portsmouth because they're different council areas despite both being tier 4. That takes it too far for me.

From Saturday we are in the same tier as our neighbouring area and I will be running there, though I haven't while we've been different tiers.

If you think about it, it's not practical. You can't tell people in London they must stay within their borough, or that they can't go to their local supermarket because it's in another area.

I can't see they'll cancel your booking OP. Go and have a good time.

We've just been to the grounds of a castle that is local, for the walk and the excellent playgrounds! If it's the same tier and outside, I'd go ahead.

Are you allowed to work if you're a joiner in Tier 4?

It is open and in the same tier so just go. I would. A change of scenery will be great.

I am sure the Covid Lockdown Police will disagree though.

No. You can't.

We are Tier 4 (from Boxing Day) and have a Boxing Day tradition of doing a specific walk every year.

That walk is 45 mins away by car so we aren't doing it this year.

We are very sad, but if people can't stick to the rules this will never end.

So feeble, “am I allowed”.
Please get a grip and use common sense.

The 'am I allowed' threads are just people wanting justification to be selfish.

They are 100% going to go ahead with their plans.

I will be Tier 4 from Boxing Day and our tradition is affected, but will not be doing our walk this year.

I know it's pointless as others will be selfish and ignore the rules though 😥

@Stellaris22

No. You can't.

We are Tier 4 (from Boxing Day) and have a Boxing Day tradition of doing a specific walk every year.

That walk is 45 mins away by car so we aren't doing it this year.

We are very sad, but if people can't stick to the rules this will never end.

Why are you saying no you can't, it's not law, OP can go if she wants. Just because you aren't going on your walk it doesn't mean everyone should do as you say

Tier 4 is to stay at home. So no. Unless you live AT the national trust property it's not your home. So no. I don't know why it's so difficult. Stay at home.