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Original poster

The infection rate for pupils last week was 2,509 out of 100,000!!

383 replies

SoscaredforJan · 23/12/2020 00:39

The Times today had reported that the infection rate for secondary pupils last week was 2,509 out of 100,000!! With the rate for primary school pupils close behind.

That’s absolutely shocking.

Rates of 300+ per 100,000 in the South East led to the emergency Tier 4 announcement at the weekend.

Rates among secondary school children are approx nine times this and primaries not far behind.

There can no longer be any conversation about schools remaining open. They need to close to all but key workers and the vulnerable and not reopen until the government has provided the money and means to make them truly ‘Covid secure’ or until enough people have been vaccinated.

How many deaths will we have in a months time when those infections have transferred to the elderly and vulnerable? How many more mutations will we have if the virus is allowed to carry on running through children? I for one do not want to find out that they vaccine no longer works.

It’s time to do what needs to be done. It’s tough and awful for everyone but it has to be done. The schools need to close.

OP posts:
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Itisasecret · 23/12/2020 16:19

JH does not tell the truth and I hope that when this is all over, anyone responsible for telling such blatant lies is taken to court. It is unacceptable the level of dishonesty these people are getting to. Especially when the spread in children/schools is now responsible for 10's of thousands of cases and knocking on 1k a day deaths.

They need to be held accountable.

PaperScissorsRock · 23/12/2020 17:15

The virus is seasonal. They should have gone back in May when the weather was better and kids could have been outside more.

Hindsight is wonderful isn’t it?
In May there was still little known about Covid-19, certainly not enough to say for sure that it was seasonal Hmm

PaperScissorsRock · 23/12/2020 17:17

There’s also the matter that the South African strain has been identified in this country. That strain is looking like it affects young people more severely.

This is a pandemic, I think people need to start taking it seriously instead of sticking their heads in the sand.

Original poster
SoscaredforJan · 23/12/2020 17:21

We are at 700 deaths today and those are infections from 3 weeks ago. By the time the schools go back we will be near enough on 1000 deaths a day. Goodness knows how many will be in hospital but it will be more than the peak of 19k in April as that milestone is due to be passed on Xmas day. Surely we aren’t all going to be waving our children off to school when hospitals are overwhelmed and 1000 people a day of dying of Covid Confused

OP posts:
Wherehavetheteletubbiesgone · 23/12/2020 17:22

Schools should be shut NOW. It is not safe for the teachers they (the DfE) have a responsibility for the children's and teachers safety. This would not pass a risk assessment.

KnowingMeKnowingYule · 23/12/2020 17:23

@Itisasecret

JH does not tell the truth and I hope that when this is all over, anyone responsible for telling such blatant lies is taken to court. It is unacceptable the level of dishonesty these people are getting to. Especially when the spread in children/schools is now responsible for 10's of thousands of cases and knocking on 1k a day deaths.

They need to be held accountable.

Totally agree. I am incandescent at the lies being told around schools.
Delatron · 23/12/2020 17:26

@PaperScissorsRock I said it at the time so not hindsight I’m afraid.

It’s obvious hospitals would be more overwhelmed in winter. Not bloody rocket science!

Delatron · 23/12/2020 17:28

Oh and unless you you have scientific evidence @PaperScissorsRock that it is causing more severe disease in younger people (other than it’s spread more amongst S.A youngsters partying and therefore a numbers game) then I’d stop scaremongering if I were you. Totally irresponsible.

LastTrainEast · 23/12/2020 17:40

"It’s time to do what needs to be done. It’s tough and awful for everyone but it has to be done. The schools need to close."

Why stop there? You say they are too dangerous to be open, but you want the key workers children to go there. Surely you're not saying it doesn't matter if the key workers and their children die? (and their teachers)

Let's close them all for the next six months and manage without the key workers and see how that goes.

HelloitsmeMargaret · 23/12/2020 17:47

Do you have the source (ie the ONS link rather than the Times). PHE seem to be urgently looking for more data on school infections to see if the new variants react differently. There's still two weeks to collect enough data to make the right decisions by children and adults.

wantmorenow · 23/12/2020 17:57

Teacher and parent here.
Maybe I'm being naïve, but I see empty church halls, libraries and community centres all around me. Surely at least spreading out these classes into a larger area of available space could at least make a more Covid secure environment. Maybe move some teachers and classes into nearby but separate accommodation if available?

I work in FE and have been allowed to offer all my classes simultaneously online and F2F to allow students to choose what they feels best fits their own circumstances and needs each day. Means I have rarely had more than 6-10 students in at any one time, cases have stayed low and I'm sure it's down to this flexibility. Sometimes I have been the only one in the room but they are there at home at they do engage. it's been weird but successful.

If secondary schools did the same, live teaching, live registers and kids must either log in from home or come in that would help massively and be inclusive for those who need to attend and reduce numbers in the small rooms.

RingPiece · 23/12/2020 18:23

RosesAndHellebores
Regrettably the teachers' unions opposed schools opening last summer.

The unions have no power and therefore cannot pass legislation. They may have opposed schools reopening to all without proper safety measures in place (they were open throughout to kw and vulnerable children, as we all know, however), but the government makes the decisions.
How many times does this need to be made clear?!! Confused

Original poster
SoscaredforJan · 23/12/2020 18:38

@LastTrainEast

"It’s time to do what needs to be done. It’s tough and awful for everyone but it has to be done. The schools need to close."

Why stop there? You say they are too dangerous to be open, but you want the key workers children to go there. Surely you're not saying it doesn't matter if the key workers and their children die? (and their teachers)

Let's close them all for the next six months and manage without the key workers and see how that goes.

Now you’re just being stupid. I would be happy for my children to be in school with smaller classes, masks, PPE for the teachers, Windows that open and money to turn the heat up. Which could happen if only the children who needed places could attend school. Then everyone is safe Confused There measures are what everyone with an ounce of sense called for in September but no. The majority were happy for their children to be given a second rate, unsafe education which the government wanted so they wouldn’t have to fund schools.
OP posts:
ElizabethG81 · 23/12/2020 18:39

I agree that part of the problem now is that closures went on too long last time. There's no trust left. I don't trust the schools to re-open before Easter if they do close in Jan, and I also don't trust that they'll be providing a proper education after my experience last time. There would also be gaslighting about there being "no negative impact on the children, they can catch up, etc, etc", when we now also know that that is bullshit.

PaperScissorsRock · 23/12/2020 18:46

@Delatron amazing you knew at that stage!
Very odd that you had that info before scientists 🙄

As for the SA strain, research is being done, but anecdotal evidence is showing that more young people are critically ill from this strain.

I remember a year ago there was a thread by someone worried about the newly discovered virus in China, and that it had the potential to be a pandemic - people were told to go to their GPs as they were over anxious, to stop scaremongering. That aged well.
Posters saying it was gathering pace in February faced similar.
Suggestions that the country might lock down were told the same.

It’s not scaremongering to discuss new information. It would be highly irresponsible for schools to go back without vast improvements to safety and ensure that cases do not continue spiralling out of control. The NHS won’t cope, plus it increases the chances of further mutations, with no prior knowledge of whether this would make the virus milder or more severe.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 23/12/2020 18:49

I think should be closed for extra couple weeks to get numbers down and more vaccinated
I know kids need school and I was all for mine being there but now I am having doubts as numbers are high
Ds school have had no year groups isolating but have had a couple cases just that luckily they were not in school in timeframe for isolation
And schools here were starting to just see cases before holidays after all being quite clear
I guess we will have to see if the tiers get numbers down , i expect poss more announcements come 30.12 before new year

Delatron · 23/12/2020 20:09

I knew that viruses were seasonal @PaperScissorsRock and that kids could be outside more and therefore safer? Again not rocket science 🙄
Many were calling for kids back in May. I was one of them. No hindsight here. Would have been happy for them to be off in December though. You know when hospitals are normally busier????

Delatron · 23/12/2020 20:11

Until you have firm evidence and not anecdotal evidence that this new strain affects children more then yes you are scaremongering @PaperScissorsRock

PaperScissorsRock · 23/12/2020 20:16

Scientists in May suspected that Covid could be seasonal, but at that point didn’t know for sure.
With hindsight it’s possible to say that yes, children could have returned to school in May, but at the time there wasn’t enough data to safely make that decision, it would have been guesswork and assumptions, which could have backfired spectacularly in the early days of a novel virus pandemic.

PaperScissorsRock · 23/12/2020 20:16

I was repeating what had been said on the news and in several articles.

Nellodee · 23/12/2020 20:17

The anecdotal evidence comes from South Africa's health minister. I think that is worth discussing.

PaperScissorsRock · 23/12/2020 20:23

I remember many Covid symptoms being “only anecdotal”, how does the research come about if it doesn’t originate from anecdotal evidence?

Igglepigglesgrubbyblanket · 23/12/2020 20:23

There are more solutions to this than just blanket school closures. They could issue advice to not mix generations, they could do mass testing of school children followed by tracing of contacts, isolation and support for those who need it, they could find the fucking NHS properly so it can cope. Children have born the brunt of restrictions too much already in my opinion and they will be starting their adult lives during the resulting recession. I don't think they should be further punished.

PaperScissorsRock · 23/12/2020 20:24

Firm evidence was what scientists were looking for back in May when schools remained closed...