Covid and Selfishness

[Wrecktal]

I’ve head the word ‘selfish’ being used a lot in relation to Covid. I remember reading Dawkins in my twenties, and being quite blown away by the concept that we are all selfish - and that even the most altruistic act can be perceived as indirectly ‘selfish’. With Covid, and listening to David Attenborough about the most likely cause of Covid - I wanted to have a very scaled back Christmas. Yet I’ve ordered rubbish from Amazon, bought more mince pies than I need and not yet given to charity as I promised myself I’d do. Why? Because I’m selfish. Obviously my initial plans for Christmas would have been far more altruistic, but I chose to put my family first - which could ultimately be to their detriment. So - is the answer in the battle against Covid - to reach a different level of altruism,

You live in a capitalist society. Forgive yourself.

Very few people are truly altruistic.

The majority take for themselves what they need for a very comfortable life and give only what they have left over. Whether it be time or money.

I'm sick to death of hearing "selfish" to be honest. It's human nature to care more about yourself and your own family than strangers. There is only so much you can ask people to sacrifice for the "greater good". How far are we expected to go?

So capitalism will destroy us? Our dominance of the planet - and what sets us aside from other animals is that we are civilised. That we can behave in a more altruistic way than other animal species?

I remember reading Dawkins in my twenties, and being quite blown away by the concept that we are all selfish

Really?

You hadn't noticed that people will almost always look out for their own interests, and those of their families, before anyone else?

@IcedPurple it was more the idea that even if I carry out an apparently selfless act, it is / in fact - selfish.

E.g - the more altruistic I am this Xmas, it actually benefits me more - in terms of Covid.

[quote Wrecktal]@IcedPurple it was more the idea that even if I carry out an apparently selfless act, it is / in fact - selfish.[/quote]
Very often that is the case though. Even donating to charity has the benefit of making the giver feel good about themselves.

Everyone is, by instinct, fundamentally selfish. Even most acts of altruism have a selfish motivation - people do them because it makes them feel good, or because they think it will be reciprocated, or because they want praise.

[quote Wrecktal]@IcedPurple it was more the idea that even if I carry out an apparently selfless act, it is / in fact - selfish.[/quote]
A friend of mine has been seeing a therapist for various things

This friend is incredibly helpful, will do anything for anyone, vists the elderly, very helpful in the church, volunteered for everything at the childrens school etc

And shes been told that its all very well doing these things but it depends on the REASON she’s doing it

Basically she has been told (and realised) that she has been doing it to make herself feel good and look good and show that she is a good person...quite without meaning to

I thought it was interesting, so in effect she is a wonderful human being for very selfish reasons

Well that was a huge crosspost 😳

This thread is a bit depressing.
I help people out because I want to. Not to make me feel better about myself.
It's not much : a bit of money to help them out or a bunch of flowers or something nothing huge but I like making people feel as if they can rely on me in a crisis : a willing ear if they need to talk. I'm a good listener.
It's nothing really but it comes from a place of empathy as so many of my friends are going through hell , especially now.
I didn't realize it was me being the selfish one though ! ( I'm no saint I know , but I want to just be there for my friends and family now and again )
Maybe I shouldn't be like this then?

@ElephantWhaleRabbit

Everyone is, by instinct, fundamentally selfish. Even most acts of altruism have a selfish motivation - people do them because it makes them feel good, or because they think it will be reciprocated, or because they want praise.

I honestly don't, but I know nobody would believe me here! If I give people money it's never a loan ( it's not much anyway) I do it because I want to help people not to get anything back from them. Likewise a listening ear : costs nothing! I feel bad now that people would think they would need to reciprocate anything!

@willsantausesantatize that’s not the message at all it’s about recognising that it’s very rare to do something with zero benefit to you. It sounds like your desire to be a particular kind of person is your benefit. That’s perfectly okay and doesn’t take anything away from the good intention.

The best societies throughout the animal kingdom work because creatures can see a longer chain of benefit to their individual circumstance.

Interesting...
DH and I were discussing what to do over Christmas, and realised that we are both at least partly motivated by "when we look back on this in 1/5/10 years, we want to be able to say we stuck to the rules".

Obviously my initial plans for Christmas would have been far more altruistic, but I chose to put my family first

It will be unpopular, but I put my wife and boys first, last and in the middle. They are the most important in my life and anything/one else is way down the list.

Yes, people will think that's selfish and fine, that's their point of view, but it sits completely comfortably with me.

Perhaps giving to charity may have a selfish motivation, but it certainly doesn’t hurt anyone.

With the selfish covid people, they generally are doing something which benefits them and potentially harms someone else, whether that be choosing to go on holiday at the moment to a less covid-y place, taking all the loo rolls at the supermarket or still going out after getting a text to self-isolate.

We are all inherently selfish, it’s human nature and ultimately about survival.
However, covid has really highlighted that many people can be very unselfish in terms of helping, and supporting people.

Does that come from a selfish need to feel good,?
Are all the local Facebook support group members patting themselves on the back?

Knowing ours, some will be, but many won’t, they are (I believe) genuinely lovely people who care.
But does it actually matter why they do it, if the people who need help get help and the people who do the helping get a warm glow, then everyone wins

Does that come from a selfish need to feel good,?
Are all the local Facebook support group members patting themselves on the back?

You could argue that at some level, they might hope that the same support would be extended to them were it ever to be needed.

But does it actually matter why they do it, if the people who need help get help and the people who do the helping get a warm glow, then everyone wins

Absolutely. There is such a thing as enlightened self interest. It's a basis of how society functions.

But ultimately, when push comes to shove, the vast majority of us will favour the interests of ourselves and our families way above those of others.

@willsantausesantatize - no, you absolutely should be like that! I think it’s a paradox. It’s a realisation that we are all selfish - but your behaviour is ‘high order’ selfishness and that’s really good! You recognise that by helping others in your community, it not only benefits them - but also indirectly benefits yourself. And this is the key thing that will combat Covid. Selfishness is not a bad thing if it is channelled in the right way.

@IcedPurple I agree with your push comes to shove, and I’m favouring my family first over Xmas, although I intended not to. My animalistic self has taken over as we are in a crisis. But my social self would have done more to help the community. I should be listening to my social self, more than my animalistic self in order to beat Covid?

Maybe the species survives because we are selfish and look out for our families first and foremost.

Yes we are all selfish to some extent, but people can be less selfish if they choose to be

This is why communism fails though isn’t it? In its purest form then it absolutely makes sense that equal sharing of resources means you and yours have security that may be less secure if left to acquire on an individual basis. It fails when people realise that they can get ‘more’ unscrupulously and as a result there’s no longer equality and selfishness benefits more than selflessness.

@NamechangedforAIBU I agree - I think our ability to be selfish, to the extent that we are civilised - has allowed us to dominate the planet. However, in order to combat Covid - we need to utilise our ‘higher order’ selfish behaviour - so we can continue to dominate the planet.

@Cornettoninja I agree. Communism would equate to social selfishness (selflessness?) - but we are all animals! It denies that side of human nature (so the more pure form of selfishness). People are a balance of both.