He was damned if he did and damned if he didnt

[Trekkerbabe]

That is all I have to say.

Wondered how long it'd take the MN Johnson apologists to waft in. You do realise this is just the latest in a tediously long line of deadly fuck ups he and his witless sidekicks have caused?

You have no shame, just like your half-arsed glorious führer

I agree he couldn't really win but doing this at the last minute was unforgiveable (and I can't help thinking it has more to do with distracting us from Brexit).

Once they realised case numbers were rising they should have said then, sorry no Christmas mixing. And then people could have made other arrangements, eg meeting outside halfway between homes to exchange presents. If you have to work this week you can't do that now.

@baroqueandblue

Wondered how long it'd take the MN Johnson apologists to waft in. You do realise this is just the latest in a tediously long line of deadly fuck ups he and his witless sidekicks have caused?

You have no shame, just like your half-arsed glorious führer

I can't forgive him for having a go at the opposition over this and saying it's ' inhumane' to cancel the Christmas five days break. Then to go ahead anyway? I know things change etc etc but there wasn't any need for that showmanship last week however much pressure they are under.

The problem isn't that he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

He created the situation that has arisen by a chain of very poor choices.

He went out of his way to court scientists, regarded as outliers in terms of their opinions, because they told him what he wanted to here rather than listening to people who were telling him things he didn't want to here.

Thus making a pigs ear out of everything.

Its not the only subject I can think of he's had this issue of wanting to be surrounded by yes men rather than being forced to be a grown up, take responsibility and make difficult decisions at the right time.

He is the Disney Dad PM.

"Disney Dad PM" Yes! This is exactly what he is. So we'll put.

well*

@willsantausesantatize he can't help himself, plain and simple. He thinks every PMQs is an opportunity to do the Opposition Snide Belittling Dance, not a serious opportunity to discuss what effectively, in a time like this, ought to be a cross-party effort to keep people safe, fed and reassured. He's a narcissistic clown, every fucking time

Yes, he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't, but given that it wouldn't make any difference to his popularity, he could have taken the decision earlier. People would still have been unhappy about it, but it would have been less chaotic. Instead he seems to have held out until as late as possible in the vain hope that the facts would somehow change.

He is the Disney Dad PM.

Which all things considered, shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone...

A change of plans did however mean that people had to commit to Christmas spending, some of which can't be recouped.

In terms of ordinary people, this was miserable. In terms of businesses, however, the later Christmas is cancelled, perhaps, the better.

And with the interests of which group do we think Boris and co are aligning themselves here?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5245196.stm

How did we get here?

To give credit where credit is due, he can clearly write columns that some people like, but he shouldn't be in charge of anything.

The absolute worst thing you could do to people was promise something and then snatch it away. You'd have to be an absolutely numpty not to realise that. I have no sympathy for our appalling 'leaders'.

He is an incompetent clown. I'm amazed people defend him, but then people vote for Trump sooo....💁‍♀️

Remember last year when he wouldn't look at the photo of a 4 year old asleep on the floor of the A&E? Nobody was banging pots for the NHS then. Weird.

I'm just surprised people are surprised by this! I was upset yesterday as my plans were pulled from under me (along with millions of other people) but its a numbers game, always has been and it needed to be done. I have taken most of the predictions with a huge pinch of salt anyway because I could see the cases creeping up.
If I hear 'but I've bought food' one more time I will explode. Get. A. Grip. I've bought food too. I will start eating the bloody stuff today as opposed to the 24th.
I probably won't be able to see my partner until April if this shit carries on but we'll survive.

The message in Sainsbury's over their tanoy has been (since about September ' ) .. we will do all we can , as the coronavirus situation changes' .. ( something like this)
Why didn't our Government have the same message : cautious and not promising any ' breaks' at all ? Just tell people that it's being reviewed daily and to await further details?
If the supermarkets can do it then why can't they? Wouldn't have been that hard but no it was ' Boris saves Christmas ' or some such. Now it's this.
It was giving people false hope really.
It is sad.

I'm just surprised people are surprised by this!

Depends who you listened to:

Starmer: “It’s now likely that the next big mistake will be over the easing of restrictions over Christmas,” the Labour leader told the Prime Minister earlier this week.

“If he really is going to press ahead with this, can he tell us what’s the assessment and has it been done on the impact it will have on infection rates and increased pressure on the NHS? What’s the impact?”

Johnson replied: “I wish he had the guts to just say what he really wants to do, which is to cancel the plans people have made and to cancel Christmas. I think that’s what he’s driving at, Mr Speaker.”

No. He was damned by being completely reactive, by not foreseeing what everyone else could see coming from hundreds of miles away, and by failing to manage people's expectations accordingly. He's incompetent, completely out of his depth and presiding over sheer, unmitigated chaos. That's his own failure of leadership and no one else's.

@everythingthelighttouches

It is not the taking away of it,

It is the promising of it in the first place.

Only a fool would promise Christmas , 6 weeks ahead of time, in the middle of a pandemic.

6 weeks ago we were in a totally different place. This new strain has only really escalated in scale in the last couple of weeks. Yes, there was something odd going on in Kent during Nov lockdown, but they didn't know why. It wasn't until Friday that the scientists had the full review.

Same in Europe, a couple of weeks ago, everything was carrying on as normal, this week, all have introduced stronger measures and lockdowns. It is, what it is.

@millymokk

Perhaps I'm being too charitable but maybe they were hoping cases wouldn't continue to rise. On a cynical level allowing people to believe in Christmas meant they have likely spent far more then they would if no Christmas was on the table in Nov.

That is exactly how I am feeling.

6 weeks ago we were in a totally different place.

Yes - lockdown #2. Things were not all fine 6 weeks ago.

It would have been better if had said a month ago. Or have said we will allow mixing for Christmas but if you make plans be aware they could be pulled at last minute.

Not reassuring everyone for weeks (even three days ago) that he wouldn't pull the Christmas bubbles) and then doing a u turn a week before when everyone's planned everything and bought everything (although maybe that was always the plan - get everyone spending then pull Christmas!).

As it was being pointed out on twitter last night, Johnson could have managed expectations so much better.

On 17th July,
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53441912
Coronavirus: Boris Johnson sets out plan for 'significant normality' by Christmas

There was no way that this was even realistic. The scientists were saying we were likely to get a second wave in the Autumn.

And two weeks later he was putting Greater Manchester into restrictions.

Even after the start of the Autumn and the huge issue in September with a lack of tests and rise in cases - and an expanding/tightening in restrictions in the north of england to the point that we had to have another national lockdown:

On the 5th November he was saying:
www.itv.com/news/2020-11-05/covid-boris-johnson-confident-uk-will-have-as-normal-a-christmas-as-possible
Covid: Boris Johnson 'confident' UK will have 'as normal a Christmas as possible'

On 19th November he was being told by SAGE:
"Relaxation of interventions over the festive period presents a significant risk of increased transmission and increased prevalence, potentially by a large amount."

6 days later he announced the Christmas bubbles despite this.

On the 3rd December, SAGE said that reducing the planned five day relaxation to one or two days was much more sensible and less risky. But Johnson came out fighting saying he had no plans to change the rules.

Even at the start of last week when it was obvious there was a developing problem in London with the councils wanting to switch to online learning in schools followed by the T3 announcement Johnson was STILL adament that at least some of us would have Christmas. We should just be sensible and maybe vulnerable people should reconsider.

As a lot of people were saying last night on twitter:

Why didn’t they just say a normal Christmas wasn’t going to happen, then announce limited relaxation if cases allowed?

Instead, Johnson managed to help build up expectations and hopes of a semi-normal Christmas. People planned and prepared.

AND THEN he pulled the plug which can only have been far more psychologically damaging to the population.

Its appalling.

Its been pretty obvious to anyone paying close attention what was happening and what was sensible over Christmas. I was posting Christmas presents in late October precisely for this reason and DH's entire family had all been in touch to say in one way or another that they were not expecting Christmas to be normal or to be meeting up. I do think in someways that has made the last week or so a lot easier to deal with. We were able to do a last minute unexpected meet up with DH's sister. We have made tentitive plans for Christmas day with a likeminded local family with the proviso that this may well not be able to go ahead. Both families have been keen to stay outside and to stay local way before the 'stay local' message was out.

But no. Johnson knew better throughout. Cos Johnson is a fucking egotistical dickhead who didn't want to be responsible and manage expectations.

He promised cake, and we instead get a turd. And not even a sparkly polished one.

This isn't a one off. Its part of a pattern of the same behaviour. People were warned. But like Johnson, they didn't want to believe it. Its too easy to moan about scaremongers instead.

So yeah. I'm kind pissed at threads like this rather than admit that Johnson is the Disney Dad PM who promised his kid a real life unicorn for Christmas then couldn't even be fucked to turn up with a second hand mylittlepony.

Fuck him. He was not 'damned if he did, or damned if he didn't'. Not in the slightest.

The policy decisions are never going to please everyone but he just acts too late each and every time:

1. Allowing Twickenham, international football matches and Cheltenham to go ahead when Europe had aready begun lockdowns
2. Allowing the discharge of care home residents from hospitals without testing or worse still when positive
3. Waiting until the last minute to extend furough (in consequence people were made redundant) when MPs had been desperately asking for it to be extended for months to cover places and sectors that couldnt reopen
4. the DfE giving secondary schools 1 days notice before the Christmas holidays that all pupils need to be tested before returning to school in January and telling schools it's their responsibility to oversee!

I bet the council in Greenwich were listening to the announcement yesterday and shaking their heads in disbelief that the Govt had tied their hands in moving to online provision when they had tried to act to stop transmission .

Being PM at the moment is a nightmare position but Johnson's late decisions and u-turns make the situation more of a nightmare. Making a late announcement, yet again, only make it worse. Oh is his 'oven-ready' Brexit deal done yet?

Do you really think he couldn't have handled Christmas better OP? We've had barely any household mixing this year because it fuels transmission, why was that going to magically improve for Christmas?!

I would say Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is damned...damned incompetent.

[quote baroqueandblue]@willsantausesantatize he can't help himself, plain and simple. He thinks every PMQs is an opportunity to do the Opposition Snide Belittling Dance, not a serious opportunity to discuss what effectively, in a time like this, ought to be a cross-party effort to keep people safe, fed and reassured. He's a narcissistic clown, every fucking time[/quote]
Because that's the part of the job he enjoys. The japes, the shithousery, the Oxford debating society, the role of chief court jester.

What he doesn't like is having to make unpopular decisions. However, that's the job and it's why he isn't cut out for it.

@merrymouse

6 weeks ago we were in a totally different place.

Yes - lockdown #2. Things were not all fine 6 weeks ago.

And he dillied and dallied over putting those measures in, allowing things to get totally out of hand in the north especially.