Are some people making this harder on themselves than it needs to be?

Illy605 · 20/12/2020 08:05

Sadly my plans have had to be cancelled. I live in England and my parents in Scotland. All travel in and out of Scotland has been banned and my parents live in a Tier 3 area. I’m not a single household and haven’t been in a support bubble with my family- my sister lives 20 mins from them so obviously that made more sense. The rules before yesterday were strained enough for me getting time off to travel up within the window. I’m absolutely gutted but there are worse things happening for people. I’ll see them when things relax next year. And for now, I suppose I have the unique way of telling them I’m pregnant over FaceTime 😂

Redcrayons · 20/12/2020 08:09

Maybe your youngish single man is in tier 4 so can’t travel now. Maybe his parents are in a support bubble with his single sister so now he can’t go.
My mum now has to decide between seeing her SEN sister (not seen since June) or Me and my DCs.

It’s shit all around.

Ypsilanti · 20/12/2020 08:10

Yes, you’re right, but it’s also about being responsible and doing the right thing. I’m someone who could legally form a support bubble with my parents, but the fact that I’ve not seen them since August (and they’re a 3 hour drive away) sort of gives the lie to to that. It would be bending the rules so I could have a more normal Christmas.

Just because it’s not illegal to do something doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do. And I firmly believe the reason we’re in this mess is because the government has repeatedly failed to take timely action, so I feel it would be hypocritical of me not to do my bit.

It’s beyond shit, though.

ssd · 20/12/2020 08:10

I agree op. And I'm seeing an awful lot of angst on here. Whilst I'm not disputing how shit this all is, a lot of posters see it as armageddon.

Ypsilanti · 20/12/2020 08:10

(I’m tier 4)

Original poster

DailyPotion · 20/12/2020 08:11

@Redcrayons

Maybe your youngish single man is in tier 4 so can’t travel now. Maybe his parents are in a support bubble with his single sister so now he can’t go. My mum now has to decide between seeing her SEN sister (not seen since June) or Me and my DCs. It’s shit all around.

No, he lives locally and he's an only child, but this is my point. In both those situations he could still go, within the rules. The parents can be part of two bubbles if needed and travel for a support bubble is allowed too.

OP posts:

MrsDeadlock · 20/12/2020 08:12

Yep. So much unnecessary drama in lots of cases (not alll). Also some very, very sad circumstances people are trying their best to navigate. There is no one size fits all solution here.

I think there are some that just see the restrictions as a reason not to see people. No judgement on that, I would too if I had difficult family members.

The support bubbles are there for very good reason.

Iseeyoulookingatme · 20/12/2020 08:16

I live over 200 miles away from my parents and have been in tier 3 since the last lock down which means I haven't seen my parents since August I can't travel to see my parents as they live in tier 4. They will be spending Christmas day with my brother as he is a single person and is in there bubble and probably needs contact with them more than me.
We are having Christmas day with dh mum who lives round the corner from us who we see on a regular basis as she is in our support bubble.
I really miss seeing my family and this Christmas will be harder for me than others.

steppemum · 20/12/2020 08:20

I agree.

There are some people who need (dons hard hat) to just break the rules and do it, specific sad circumstances.
eg woman on local news last night, terminally ill, spent last 2 Christmases in hospital and now facing not seeing family over Christmas, she said - I can't plan to just meet up in the summer, I don't know if I will make it to the summer.
If I were her family, we would go anyway.

Some people on their own, and now can't travel eg single living in London, no car, parents in Glos etc face being on their own. Well, I bet there is someone you know living nearby in same circumstances, get together on Christmas day and make an unusual Christmas memory.

But really we need to just make the best of it. I remember one Christmas when I was living overseas, we got together with friends and made home made pizza for Christmas dinner. We made it work.

For 90% of us, we can just make it work.

I love Christmas, we have lots of family, and do lots of the traditional stuff usually, but I really have never understood this whole thing about people stressing over the perfetc christmas, and if Granny doesn't see grandkids then it will all be ruined.

It is what you make it. You set the tone for your family and kids, you get on with it.

Original poster

DailyPotion · 20/12/2020 08:20

@Iseeyoulookingatme

I live over 200 miles away from my parents and have been in tier 3 since the last lock down which means I haven't seen my parents since August I can't travel to see my parents as they live in tier 4. They will be spending Christmas day with my brother as he is a single person and is in there bubble and probably needs contact with them more than me. We are having Christmas day with dh mum who lives round the corner from us who we see on a regular basis as she is in our support bubble. I really miss seeing my family and this Christmas will be harder for me than others.

Oh, I agree, there's an awful lot of disappointment, but there's no need for people to actually be alone.

OP posts:

steppemum · 20/12/2020 08:22

we won't see my parents who live locally, but as my mum keeps saying - we've got this far, they will gte the vaccine in Jan, it is just a few more weeks and then they will be safe. No point in giving them covid over Christmas for the sake of a few weeks.

NeurologicallySpeaking · 20/12/2020 08:24

I'm still seeing my mum who lives alone. We are in different tiers (we are T4) so she should isolate when she goes back to her tier.

It's allowed within the rules - support bubbles allowed across tiers- and she is certainly in the category of people severely affected by loneliness.

Don't care tbh if people think we should suck it up. If it's allowed within the rules then we are going to do whatever we can.

I don't really understand people feeling they have to be martyrs and go beyond the rules. I mean it's your choice but don't expect everyone to do the same.

Original poster

DailyPotion · 20/12/2020 08:25

FWIW, we won't see anyone, my parents live locally, so under anything other than Tier 4 we could, but they're not alone and neither are we. It will be OK.

I'd hoped to see my sister and her family, they had planned to travel from a Tier 2 area and that won't now be happening, but again no one will be alone.

OP posts:

airforsharon · 20/12/2020 08:26

a lot of posters see it as armageddon
I think it's more the straw breaking the camels back. After months of Boris telling us yes you can/no you can't/possibly/maybe/i don't know, little contact with family and friends, operations cancelled, job loss, the stress of home schooling, general anxiety........BJ held up the promise of a 5 day 'proper' Christmas break like a reward for everyone - it was only last Weds he was scoffing at Starmer who raised concerns re the 5 day break at PMQs. And now he's backtracked, again.

I understand why he has and i'll be gritting my teeth & following the rules, as i have all along, because i want this horror show over and done with as soon as possible. But i have every sympathy with those who are tired, stressed and for whatever reasons not coping well feeling like this is the last straw.

TheSockMonster · 20/12/2020 08:26

You are completely right, however people are scared they’ll inadvertently spread the virus to loved ones so not acting from a place of pure logic.

We’ve made a similar decision (over a somewhat vague self isolation period, not Tiers) because of “what if...”

TheRubyRedshoes · 20/12/2020 08:31

Yes op and I feel for all these lonely elderly people who could be with relatives but won't because they're relatives had mis interpreted the rules.

skylarkdescending · 20/12/2020 08:36

@airforsharon

a lot of posters see it as armageddon I think it's more the straw breaking the camels back. After months of Boris telling us yes you can/no you can't/possibly/maybe/i don't know, little contact with family and friends, operations cancelled, job loss, the stress of home schooling, general anxiety........BJ held up the promise of a 5 day 'proper' Christmas break like a reward for everyone - it was only last Weds he was scoffing at Starmer who raised concerns re the 5 day break at PMQs. And now he's backtracked, again.

I understand why he has and i'll be gritting my teeth & following the rules, as i have all along, because i want this horror show over and done with as soon as possible. But i have every sympathy with those who are tired, stressed and for whatever reasons not coping well feeling like this is the last straw.

Totally this.

It's not that 'missing Christmas' on its own is too hard for people but that many people have trudged through this difficult year with Christmas meet ups as their light at the end of the tunnel. This will be the final nail in the coffin for many peoples mental health.

Personally I have dragged myself through the last few months of monotonous walks in the park and slow weekend days at home with the kids. I am now sliding into a listless 'what's the point' state of being.

NeurologicallySpeaking · 20/12/2020 08:41

I mean if people would rather be apart because of the risk and both sides prefer that then fair enough. I have spoken at length to my mum about this and she would prefer to take the, legal, risk and be with us.

She isn't that old so won't be getting the vaccine soon and this one day together will have to keep her going for subsequent months of being alone.

It seems very unfashionable to care about mental health at the moment but the risk to my mum's mental health condition is greater than that to her physical health.

I mean on another thread people are literally saying that mental health doesn't count and people just need to show resilience and get over it. To people with actively suicidal relatives. It's absurd.

likeamillpond · 20/12/2020 08:43

@DailyPotion

It's rubbish, no getting away from that but I'm seeing loads of people devastated because they can't now do things, I think they still can, within the rules.

We're tier 4

For example, a youngish single man, now won't be going to his parents' (early sixties, but no additional health issues) and hasn't set step inside their house since March. In my understanding, he could definitely have been in when the first lockdown was eased, for whatever reason, that was their choice. And, as he lives alone, he can still be part of their bubble and go there for Christmas (or any other day).

Similarly, a friend's elderly mother will now be alone because she lives too far to travel in the day. But, as a support bubble, they could go with their original plans.

I understand some people want to be cautious, you can't knock that, but if you were happy with the arrangements yesterday and they're still allowed within the rules, what's changed?

I think people who attach too much importance to Christmas are usually the ones who suffer the most.

FuckeryOmbudsman · 20/12/2020 08:46

Not everyone thinks it's right to rebrand their Christmas plans as 'support bubble'

This isn't solely about what's legal - it's also what's right.

RoseAndRose · 20/12/2020 08:49

I understand some people want to be cautious, you can't knock that, but if you were happy with the arrangements yesterday and they're still allowed within the rules, what's changed?

The emergence of a new and more contagious variant in the tier 4 areas. And it being in no-one's interest for tier 4 people to travel unless it's absolutely necessary.

Rebranding your Christmas trip as a support bubble might not be illegal, but it's exactly th at sort of trip that should not happen. I think your friends who are postponing trips outside their locality are doing the right thing and I applaud them for it.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 20/12/2020 08:53

Thing is - even when the govt has ‘allowed’ people to do certain things they’ve always hinted strongly that they don’t really want you to do it

And there are plenty of people that have criticised and ostracised others for doing stuff that they are legally allowed to do

Which is we end up threads like this

CatchingWind · 20/12/2020 08:53

@DailyPotion

It's rubbish, no getting away from that but I'm seeing loads of people devastated because they can't now do things, I think they still can, within the rules.

We're tier 4

For example, a youngish single man, now won't be going to his parents' (early sixties, but no additional health issues) and hasn't set step inside their house since March. In my understanding, he could definitely have been in when the first lockdown was eased, for whatever reason, that was their choice. And, as he lives alone, he can still be part of their bubble and go there for Christmas (or any other day).

Similarly, a friend's elderly mother will now be alone because she lives too far to travel in the day. But, as a support bubble, they could go with their original plans.

I understand some people want to be cautious, you can't knock that, but if you were happy with the arrangements yesterday and they're still allowed within the rules, what's changed?

What's changed is if it isn't safe to see people outside of Christmas Day then they maybe don't feel it's safe to see people on Christmas Day. Even when the Christmas relaxation period was longer we had decided not to see anyone as it wasn't suddenly safe to do so. It was a relaxation rule that was made with a "we'll deal with the effects afterwards" attitude. The government has presumably now realised those effects would be unmanageable so have reduced the time frame.

I don't see it as being hard on myself. I'm happy with our plans. There's a chance my children or I, as I work in a school, could be asymptomatic or not yet symptomatic if we have picked up the virus recently. I don't want to risk passing it on to older relatives, or even to someone healthy just because "it's allowed." A lot of what we have been allowed to do throughout this pandemic has not been because it is suddenly safe to do the things. Pubs are open to make money, schools are open because children need to be at school. Neither of those places are safe places to be with a virus around.

ImPrincessAurora · 20/12/2020 08:57

Please do tell me what I can do with 2 very young children in tier 4 for the next 3 weeks?! I’m dying to know. We can’t form a support bubble with anyone as my youngest is over 2 and none of our friends or family are single.

We can’t see anyone inside over Christmas. We can’t go shopping. We can’t go swimming. We can’t do play dates or soft play. I can’t even get their hair cut. My business is one of those that has closed (again). We can’t travel. We can’t use public transport. We can’t go out for a meal.

Please do tell me of all the things we can do that I’m missing?!

And if anyone mentions putting on water proofs to go puddle jumping in December then I will scream.

KangaShade · 20/12/2020 08:58

I live in a tier 3 area with DP but all of my friends and family are in tier 4. I haven't seen any friends or family since September (because I haven't been allowed to leave tier 3) and was desperately looking forward to 5 days staying with parents and doing socially distanced walks with friends. Now that's all out of the window.

If these restrictions carry on until Feb/Mar I could end up going five months without seeing any friends or family at all. So yeah...I'm pretty gutted about it.