Are some people making this harder on themselves than it needs to be?

[DailyPotion]

It's rubbish, no getting away from that but I'm seeing loads of people devastated because they can't now do things, I think they still can, within the rules.

We're tier 4

For example, a youngish single man, now won't be going to his parents' (early sixties, but no additional health issues) and hasn't set step inside their house since March. In my understanding, he could definitely have been in when the first lockdown was eased, for whatever reason, that was their choice. And, as he lives alone, he can still be part of their bubble and go there for Christmas (or any other day).

Similarly, a friend's elderly mother will now be alone because she lives too far to travel in the day. But, as a support bubble, they could go with their original plans.

I understand some people want to be cautious, you can't knock that, but if you were happy with the arrangements yesterday and they're still allowed within the rules, what's changed?

@steppemum

we won't see my parents who live locally, but as my mum keeps saying - we've got this far, they will gte the vaccine in Jan, it is just a few more weeks and then they will be safe. No point in giving them covid over Christmas for the sake of a few weeks.

Totally sensible

@ImPrincessAurora

Please do tell me what I can do with 2 very young children in tier 4 for the next 3 weeks?! I’m dying to know. We can’t form a support bubble with anyone as my youngest is over 2 and none of our friends or family are single.

We can’t see anyone inside over Christmas. We can’t go shopping. We can’t go swimming. We can’t do play dates or soft play. I can’t even get their hair cut. My business is one of those that has closed (again). We can’t travel. We can’t use public transport. We can’t go out for a meal.

Please do tell me of all the things we can do that I’m missing?!

And if anyone mentions putting on water proofs to go puddle jumping in December then I will scream.

You can form a support bubble if you are single. It doesn't matter if the support is single or not.

If you're not single, you have support and I agree it's rubbish, but you're not alone. It's the people insisting that they now have no choice but to be alone that I was suggesting have made it more difficult than it needs to be.

@ImPrincessAurora

Please do tell me what I can do with 2 very young children in tier 4 for the next 3 weeks?! I’m dying to know. We can’t form a support bubble with anyone as my youngest is over 2 and none of our friends or family are single.

We can’t see anyone inside over Christmas. We can’t go shopping. We can’t go swimming. We can’t do play dates or soft play. I can’t even get their hair cut. My business is one of those that has closed (again). We can’t travel. We can’t use public transport. We can’t go out for a meal.

Please do tell me of all the things we can do that I’m missing?!

And if anyone mentions putting on water proofs to go puddle jumping in December then I will scream.

You'll do the same as everyone else,grin and bear it. Its shite for everyone.

@FuckeryOmbudsman

Not everyone thinks it's right to rebrand their Christmas plans as 'support bubble'

This isn't solely about what's legal - it's also what's right.

Depends I suppose- guidance is 10 days clearance to change support bubble. Some people started self-isolating last week.

Emotional support counts. It's not just providing bread and water yet.

@NeurologicallySpeaking

OP seems to be cricising people who are no longer happy with their arrangements and so have changed/cancelled them. She seems to be recommending that they just crack on, because the arrangements are not illegal.

It is not looking at whether the arrangements are right and has not said anything about whether the people concerned are in particular need of support, sufficient to over-ride the general 'stay local' message and also an absence of support closer to home (which has a significant advantage of being more readily and frequently accessible)

It's allowed within the rules - support bubbles allowed across tiers- and she is certainly in the category of people severely affected by loneliness.

Exactly - it is allowed in the rules. I despair of people's literacy and comprehension in this country - I had no idea it was so poor. People also seem to be very confused about the overnight stays, within support bubbles - there are while threads devoted to it. It's there in black and white.

[quote FuckeryOmbudsman]@NeurologicallySpeaking

OP seems to be cricising people who are no longer happy with their arrangements and so have changed/cancelled them. She seems to be recommending that they just crack on, because the arrangements are not illegal.

It is not looking at whether the arrangements are right and has not said anything about whether the people concerned are in particular need of support, sufficient to over-ride the general 'stay local' message and also an absence of support closer to home (which has a significant advantage of being more readily and frequently accessible)[/quote]
We can't be simultaneously devastated by the effect of the changes on MH and loneliness and refusing to use the allowances that have specifically been made to help people in those situations.

And I do wish my mother lived locally - would help! Sadly she moved to another area for a job and then lost it due to the pandemic.

My brother's area. So he should be stepping up and being her support, particularly at Christmas. But he isn't.

He offered to go to her bedsit, pick her up and deposit her at my door. My head nearly exploded.

I am one of those who feels like it IS armageddon. I am a single parent, foreign, two small children, had a full time job and then was politely asked to make space for someone who could actually work normal hours without children screaming in the background. I looked for another job, but everyone is extremely wary of hiring someone with sole caring responsibilities these days. Wasnt eligible for furlough, went now to study / upskill, but the savings also are depleting very fast. I haven't seen family in a year as all of them are abroad, in the UK I have mainly acquaintances and none of them are single to form a bubble.

A friend of mine hasn't left the house since March. She is clinically obese and asthmatic. Refused to come into my garden in the summer as it was too scary.

We are rural NE Scotland so cases have been really low, especially in our locality.

We had one case in the secondary school and she stopped her daughter from going to school. This is the girls second exam year albeit cancelled exams.

I had to shield initially but as soon as I was allowed out for walks etc you couldn't keep me in!

I think the drama is a result of the way Johnson has dealt with this.

People would have coped fine had this been the plan two weeks or even a week ago.

Would you raise your children’s hopes and expectations and at the last minute shatter them?

After nearly a year of this we have all become like children as we wait for our latest instructions and allowances from Father Boris.

We are expected to obey like children. It’s only those who are happy with this arrangement that are seemingly coping so well with this mess.

If you are a single parent you can join with another household. Doesn't necessarily help if they are acquaintances rather than family I know

People would have coped fine had this been the plan two weeks or even a week ago

Do you really think people would have complied based on the rates two weeks ago? Really?

Elephant, the scientists only had clarity on this strain on Friday.

So as pm what would you do?

When you only got this clear irrefutable ℹ on Friday and

The parents can be part of two bubbles if needed and travel for a support bubble is allowed too.

I thought you could only be part of 1 support bubble?

And to the PPs saying they can't form a support bubble because none of their friends are single, it doesn't matter. If you are single you are entitled to form a bubble.
Of course you still need to have someone willing to make one with you. But you are allowed one.

If you are a single parent you can join with another household.
This is technically true, but let's be realistic. No one chooses to bubble with their single friend over an elderly parent. I have several good local friends, but they all are coupled up, and there are usually up to four grandparents in those families who are also lonely.
Acquaintances yes, I cannot imagine calling Sue from accounts and asking, "hey, what's up, haven't seen you for a couple of years? Just checking if you want to bubble up and become each other's only source of support for the next couple of months? "

The thing thats changed in my mind is that we’ve learned there’s a new, more contagious strand of the virus prevalent in tier 4 areas. I was going to have a careful Christmas in a three-household bubble under the previous rules and could technically still form a support bubble with my mum, but she’s very vulnerable and i now don’t want to risk it because the risk is higher than it was before we heard the new strand is 70% more transmissable

@Redcrayons

Maybe your youngish single man is in tier 4 so can’t travel now. Maybe his parents are in a support bubble with his single sister so now he can’t go. My mum now has to decide between seeing her SEN sister (not seen since June) or Me and my DCs. It’s shit all around.

This is me, my sister had to decide between her Non live in partner or me. Under original xmas plans we were going to be 3 households Have no one else to bubble with it is too late all my friends have (rightly) chosen family I just forgetting I is xmas and treat it like any other weekend which are normally by my own these days anyway Before March I would be at the gym , visiting mum in the nursing home all the time, this year has changed everything and it is shit to say the least

Elephant, the scientists only had clarity on this strain on Friday.

The information we are getting is a carefully curated story created by spin doctors. This is not mad conspiracy theory, this is how politics works. And it's Boris Johnson FFS, since when has he been the purveyor of truth and transparency? What happened to the "oven ready deal" and "£350m a week for the NHS". What about our "world leading test and trace system"? What happened to "we'll be seeing some normality by Christmas". It's all bollocks! Why are people still taking this government at their word?!

People certainly have been hypercautious and added in extra layers of what they will and won't do.

I really struggled in the summer because friends would not meet when it was possible and low risk to do so (younger end of adults, no additional health risks). Come autumn/ winter and they're struggling now because it's been so long since they've socialised and done exciting things like going to a pub- back in August, they were sucking teeth at us eating out in beer gardens because they thought it was far more hazardous than it was.

@FuckeryOmbudsman

Not everyone thinks it's right to rebrand their Christmas plans as 'support bubble'

This isn't solely about what's legal - it's also what's right.

This.