Has coronavirus made you think more about your own end- assisted suicide?

[womaninatightspot]

I have thought for a long time that end of life care needs reforming and that the choice not to go on should be respected for those with terminal illnesses. I've found myself thinking over the course of the pandemic that I really don't want to end up in a home when I'm old/ infirm/ demented nor would I want my care put upon my family. Ideally it'd be nice to have a "jolly good innings" and then die quietly in my sleep but its not the reality for lots of us.

I've heard the thin end of the wedge arguments but honestly some of the stories I've read about the reality of caring for the elderly/ terminally ill have been awful. I wouldn't let my dog suffer that way. Do you think there will an appetite for reform as we've all spent much too much time looking at death statistics or will every life seem somehow more precious and be encouraged to drag out to it's natural end?

It strikes me that eventually we will have the ability to choose euthanasia in England. We are becoming less religious as a nation and at the moment it’s the religious organisations that oppose legalising suicide. I certainly don’t want to be here once I’m too frail to be useful, my partner has a life limiting condition and feels the same.

It also makes sense that the government would rather not fund the welfare state to the capacity it does currently. So just from a financial standpoint it makes sense.

I do think it makes sense financially obviously not the only consideration. I've Dutch relatives and they talk more readily about what they are and aren't prepared to deal with as they have options.

No.

I'm all for euthanasia, but just wait for the usual arguments to come up .. every time it's brought up in parliament , it's voted down. Why can't people choose what they want to do ? It's dying with dignity.
I'm saving up for Switzerland in my dotage but it's not cheap.

I think it is a travesty that people can't choose to end things without shame. I see frail elderly people and end of life care in my job and it upsets me. My own mother has dementia and I have already made the desicion that if I get any inkling I am developing it I will be ending my life. I am at peace with that.

@Coffeeandcrumpet

I think it is a travesty that people can't choose to end things without shame. I see frail elderly people and end of life care in my job and it upsets me. My own mother has dementia and I have already made the desicion that if I get any inkling I am developing it I will be ending my life. I am at peace with that.

I think the same am also considering Switzerland in my dotage if things don't change but they should change. I absolutely believe that the vulnerable in society should be protected and cared for. That said I think if you have capacity and are ill or have reached your physical/ mental end I think you should have an option.

I've worked as a carer for those with advanced dementia. There is no moral reason for allowing humans to continue to suffer in that way. The fact that euthanasia is still illegal is abhorrent. Obviously its an incredibly complex issue but fundamentally we shouldn't allow humans to suffer needlessly.

@willsantausesantatize

I'm all for euthanasia, but just wait for the usual arguments to come up .. every time it's brought up in parliament , it's voted down. Why can't people choose what they want to do ? It's dying with dignity. I'm saving up for Switzerland in my dotage but it's not cheap.

I’ve said on another thread that Dignitas is my pension. Isn’t it 8k to go there?

I wouldn’t be surprised if I take a one way trip to Switzerland.

I'd rather choose when I go, yes. End it with dignity, etc. My partner feels the same. It's a humane option, I feel.

I heard that dignitus is about 10 k but that was a few years ago so it's probably more now! Anyone allowed to open one up in the UK would make a lot of money. So many people agree with this.
Politicians do not though.
Too many arguments against it.

I'd say at some point we should hold a referendum but given the gullible folk who gave us Brexit I'm not sure a measured discussion of the merits would hold up against a save granny campaign...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55350118

"Not every death is a catastrophe." With these words Swiss member of parliament Ruth Humbel ignited a debate that had been smouldering in Switzerland ever since the Covid-19 pandemic began back in March.

Interesting article on how the Swiss view Covid in a slightly different way. Can you imagine if a UK MP (or Boris) said something similar here. All hell would break loose.

I think there is a definite argument for allowing people to choose their end. I have concerns though that vulnerable people would potentially feel under an obligation to avoid becoming a burden to their families. I don't know how we would safely protect those people .

@RedBetty

I think there is a definite argument for allowing people to choose their end. I have concerns though that vulnerable people would potentially feel under an obligation to avoid becoming a burden to their families. I don't know how we would safely protect those people .

I agree RedBetty. I think people should have the option to end their own lives rather than suffering for months/years with a terminal illness. I do worry about pressure on vulnerable people and also people with mental health problems.

It's true though isn't it? In the same way that Pneumonia was thought of as an old man's friend since you go quickly. We all have to die sometime don't see why it can't be a dignified end.

The problem is laws have to be written taking the worst possible abuse of them into account, and this is something that can be abused.

I believe that if we asked the elderly people who are in care homes whether they want to continue with their life or to end it, the majority would choose to carry on living.

When you're 40s and fearfully looking into a future of infirmity and poor health it seems like a good plan, but when you actually get there ... I think you may change your mind.

I think I read somewhere that the suicide rates for some diagnosed terminal illnesses are high. For example Huntingtons Disease, because although it will limit your life, it's not quick and the degeneration of your abilities is devastating.

When and how would such a decision be made. I don't have any answers but if suicide rates are high , could there be a way of fulfilling a persons wishes to avoid a traumatic and lonely death? And, again, how could anyone be certain that the sufferer has not chosen this so as not to be a burden. I have more questions than answers.

It’s not just religious groups who are against euthanasia. British doctors have repeatedly voted against it too.
The problem is safeguarding. A frail old person who feels a burden to their relatives may be pressured to request euthanasia to preserve their children’s inheritance instead of spending it on care home fees, when they actually wanted to continue living.
People with fluctuating chronic health conditions can feel they wish to die during a bad relapse, but may change their mind during a remission.
And how do you distinguish a genuine death wish from one caused by depression.
Advance directives are fraught with difficulties too. You may think at the moment that you would want euthanasia if you became demented, but how can your doctor tell if you still feel that way once you actually are demented and can’t express your wishes clearly? And at what stage of the dementia process - which takes years - do you imagine in advance that it would be appropriate to die? When you lose speech? Or continence?
I’m not saying it would be impossible to build in safeguards, but most cases are not so clear cut as the straightforward ones that currently go to Switzerland. And even they are ethically difficult, like the paralysed young rugby player who insisted on being taken to Dignitas. Who knows whether he might have adapted to life in a wheelchair eventually and been able to have a normal length life? Or whether later medical advances might have given him mobility again. He was denied that chance.

I agree with you in theory OP, but it's interesting that in the countries that do have assisted dying as an option, the percentage of people who choose it is not high. Around 4% I think? It seems that most of us still value life even when it looks worthless to an outsider.

I think the opposite has happened and we’re continuing to want life to continue beyond the point of there being any quality of life. It has to be everybody’s choice and there has been some awful things going on (DNRs without someone requesting it and the way people were discharged to care homes with covid) but equally I think when you’re looking at admitting a very old person to hospital with anything for highly invasive treatment that they’re unlikely to survive then there should be thought given to whether that’s the best option. I’ve left worked in care homes with people with advanced dementia and I’ve watched a parent die a painful death from cancer and I know that I want a choice over whether I let a disease progress or take action while I have quality of life.

@Mangermaid

I believe that if we asked the elderly people who are in care homes whether they want to continue with their life or to end it, the majority would choose to carry on living.

When you're 40s and fearfully looking into a future of infirmity and poor health it seems like a good plan, but when you actually get there ... I think you may change your mind.

I agree. I think many of us have heard people flippantly say "if I ever end up like that" etc but we really don't know how our future selves will feel.

Some 20 years ago I was lucky to survive a brain haemorrhage- I was in my early 20’s and thankfully needed no long term support. I did need to learn to walk and washed, dressed, waking up in my own urine was humiliation for me and I still remember crying to my Mum to help clean me up.
I know my parents loved me and they had to sign the forms knowing the operation might not work, would most likely have long term disabilities - I was extremely lucky to survive. If anything like that happens again my husband knows my wishes that I do not want to be alive on a machine etc I’ve experienced it and wouldn’t want to live my life long term. I know it causes upset to my husband and family but it’s something that I strongly believe in.
People should have the choice and I completely understand that some might not feel that way and no vulnerable people should ever be taken advantage off - but the freedom of choice should be there. Though I know I’m very loved and I’m not sure my husband or my family would let me go :/

I think perhaps the question we should be asking care home residents is at some point would you like a choice? That the majority of people would choose to live is obvious. I have a great aunt who is 90 she's in pain everyday but her life, to her, is worth living. She has spoken of her friends that have chosen to die over the years and she's said that it reassures her that if some point her conditions become too much that she can make a choice (Scottish but lives in the Netherlands).