Has coronavirus made you think more about your own end- assisted suicide?

[womaninatightspot]

I have thought for a long time that end of life care needs reforming and that the choice not to go on should be respected for those with terminal illnesses. I've found myself thinking over the course of the pandemic that I really don't want to end up in a home when I'm old/ infirm/ demented nor would I want my care put upon my family. Ideally it'd be nice to have a "jolly good innings" and then die quietly in my sleep but its not the reality for lots of us.

I've heard the thin end of the wedge arguments but honestly some of the stories I've read about the reality of caring for the elderly/ terminally ill have been awful. I wouldn't let my dog suffer that way. Do you think there will an appetite for reform as we've all spent much too much time looking at death statistics or will every life seem somehow more precious and be encouraged to drag out to it's natural end?

Honey badger:

“ If people want it despite good quality of care and hospice options that's one thing, if people want it because of the lack of those options and the utter absence of dignity and choice then that's something different entirely imo.”

Very true.

@Lemonpiano

The hospice movement is based on ideology. They should not have the power to block people from a humane chosen death - thereby inflicting extreme suffering and trauma on the dying person as well as those who love them - any more than the church should have that power.

I'm not sure where you have got your information. But the three (young) people I have seen die in hospices have had heavy medication and excellent palliative care, which rendered them completely calm, non-anxious, and pain free. That's the whole point of a hospice.

I've worked with people with dementia. It is no life.

I want it so that my children know my wishes. If I am ever diagnosed with dementia I will take my own life before I lose the capacity to do so. It terrifies me due to my experiences at work.

I'm not sure where you have got your information. But the three (young) people I have seen die in hospices have had heavy medication and excellent palliative care, which rendered them completely calm, non-anxious, and pain free. That's the whole point of a hospice
Surely you can understand them wanting to go on their own terms, especially if home with families young DC right before the end. The DC seeing a parent slowly fade away unable to control bowl movements howling in pain.
Or those with MND who have to fade slowly with little dignity.
A few friends who lost parents to cancer are traumatised by their end.

Also,If my 18 year old son had some sort of horrific accident or illness that left him locked in his body, unable to communicate with no hope of recovering (I've also cared for younger people who have been in that situation), I couldn't let him live like that.

No, but only because it's something I thought about a lot before Coronavirus came on the scene.

If I'm diagnosed with a degenerative illness, make no mistake, I'll take matters into my own hands while I still can.

No, not at all.

A few friends who lost parents to cancer are traumatised by their end

Ditto to this.

300 people commit suicide every year who have a terminal illness in England alone. Just over one a day by the time you include the other nations. That must be such a hard, scary, painful, lonely decision for those people to make. One a week makes that one way trip to Switzerland. I just think it'd make sense to regulate it.

300 people commit suicide every year who have a terminal illness in England alone Even sadder they had to plan it alone so their loved ones wouldn't be charged with assisting suicide.
I remember a court case the DM lost the right to end her life suffering from MND her daughter couldn't be assistance her she choose to starve herself to death.
Plus planning your own suicide means you've to leave earlier while you have strength to physically carry it out.
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/i-helped-my-mother-take-her-own-life-28869592.html

I mean that's awful starving yourself for 24 days to avoid becoming a "vegetable" MND is such a cruel disease. It's inhumane.

I have seen someone die of cancer.

If I was in that position I'd like a room, a comfortable bed and seats for any visitors and to be hooked to a morphine pump with no limits. It's not euthanasia if the objective is pain relief so it is legal and common for people who are dying to die from the levels of morphine. Incidentally even the Catholic Church has no issue with someone being allowed enough medication to kill them if the primary purpose of that medication is pain relief and death is the side effect.

I really don't think we need to have people screaming in agony and such as described above. The purpose of humane hospices is to avoid that, to make the dying person comfortable with as much pain relief as that takes and to offer support to the families of the dying person too.

I had a bleak spot on Monday and really wished there was a magic pill that I could take just to not be here anymore.

@Mangermaid

I believe that if we asked the elderly people who are in care homes whether they want to continue with their life or to end it, the majority would choose to carry on living.

When you're 40s and fearfully looking into a future of infirmity and poor health it seems like a good plan, but when you actually get there ... I think you may change your mind.

I agree with this. And people always bring up the argument about dementia . But dementia can be a long slow road . My mum has dementia and has had it for a few years . She struggles to speak now and needs help with most things but she still smiles and laughs and enjoys music . Do not ever tell me that my mum's life is not worth living .

My dad on the other hand had vascular dementia and went downhill very fast . There became a point when I thought to myself that he really wouldn't have wanted to have carried on like that - but at what point was that line crossed?

@Yohoheaveho

I think that views on euthanasia it will shift as we have increasing numbers of frail elderly

And that statement is incredibly worrying .

@Londonmummy66 I hope you're okay that is a worrying statement.
If euthanasia is available in our future I'd hope there would be stringent measures taking beforehand.
I do hope you're okay things will improve soon.

Yes. We have made plans. Fingers crossed zero chance either of us going into a home as a result.

Back again, I think we have forgotten that death is normal, you cannot outrun it. We are now trying to beat it, overcome it because we are so 'advanced'. Of course every effort and as much money as needed should be spent on those who will recover and go on to enjoy life but we are saving so many, so often whose life should end as their time has come. To those that posted about hospices they do a wonderful job but they have a narrow remit and cannot provide palliative care to those who have dementia, those not in pain, those who want to end their life before they become incapable or need a hospice.

⬆️ This⬆️ Totally agree.

People's 'lives should end because their time has come' - who would you want to be the arbiter of deciding whose lives 'should' end and whose 'time has come'?

Yes death is normal and used to happen in our homes with family caring for and accompanying those who were dying. Who is less 'natural' about death? The ones who want people to be cared for and made comfortable and provided space to die dignifiedly or those who want someone else, a professional presumably, to make the call and end the lives of their loved ones?

@TheHoneyBadger

Make it up to the individual?

I have made my plans, my DH is very aware of my instructions as are those nominated as POA. Failing that those two avenues are out of the loop, my healthcare provider at the time, would be informed of my decision/wishes.

But the individual isn't going to do it are they? Or deal with the consequences? If you want to kill yourself that's entirely your business obviously but if you're expecting others to do it for you that is rather different. And if you're wanting the right to kill the old or the sick enshrined in law again something entirely different.

@TheHoneyBadger

It’s not just about expecting someone to kill another - it’s also about stopping/refusing treatment when the outcome is unlikely to be as you would want and letting nature take its course. Saving lives at all costs is not always the best option for the individual.
Have I planned my suicide - yes.
Have I planned what I would and would not accept as medical intervention- yes.
So can others should they feel strongly enough to do so.

I would like to see a compassionate society that did allow those who needed assistance to die and wanted it, to be able to receive it. However, I also believe that our society is not evolved enough to be sure that vulnerable/unwell/those deemed a drain on resources would be protected from those on a mission.
I do not know how to resolve the two conflicting sides.

I recognise the same conflictions. It's why I believe we have to have good quality elderly and end of life care and care for those with degenerative conditions before we can have unprejudiced or.... 'clean' discussions about euthanasia.

My son has agreed to 'take me out and shoot me' before he lets me sit in my own piss in a care home in theory. The pragmatics are a bit more complicated though obviously

I would love to see good quality care as you say, sadly my experience says, we are as far as ever we were, from achieving that goal.
Hence the need to make your own wishes legally as clear as crystal.
Maybe your son will perfect the perfect ‘solution’ should it ever be necessary. (Hopefully never needed 😱)