To bend christmas lockdown rules?

[ShopTattsyrup]

Fully prepared to get flamed for this so I shall gird myself accordingly! But all the same I am uncertain of what I should do and am after some outside perspective.

I am working the 25th and then off work until the 30th. My original vague plan (pre announcement of rules etc.) was to drive home to my mother on Boxing day and then drive home again on the 29th. Obviously now that the rules have been announced this is not allowed.

Apart from the fact that it's a four hour drive and I don't particularly want to do an 8 hour round trip for one night etc. My mother has already had covid in October, I am getting twice weekly testing through work, I am not seeing anyone else over the festive period and neither is she. In my head - surely once I'm there in her house it's fairly irrelevant if I stay for 1 night or 3?

She is keen for me to stay until the 29th as we haven't seen each other since last christmas, I am little scared of breaking the rules but can't see why I shouldn't in this instance?

Agree with most people, just go and stay as long as you want. Make something up in the unlikely event of you being stopped.

Where is she in Wales?

Does anyone say YABU genuinely think its safer to go 23rd - 27th than 26th - 29th? Or is it thr rule breaking, not the safety/covid spreading you onject to?

Op, do it. If you get pulled over, say you had the runs.

Only word of warning, does your mum have the sort of neighbours who'd report on the grounds covid has promised to stop killing people 23rd-27th, but we all know will turn back murdery at 00:01 on 28th? 1

My sister and I live a mile apart. We haven’t been in each other’s houses for months. We had planned a ‘slob’ day of tv and snacks on the 23rd. She’s now got to work, so we tentatively though about doing it on the 22nd.
I think it’s ok.
We only have mil for Christmas Day, she’s in our bubble. We will only see my sister over Christmas.

During the fire break in Wales and the night England went into lockdown in November, my son was stopped on the M4 by Cardiff around midnight by the police. They asked him where he was going. He is in the forces and had just come off deployment and was coming home to us for 2 weeks leave. So the police do stop people.
Whether they will over Christmas is a different matter.

I would say Wales adds the complication because is t it a full lockdown from 28th there?

Tbh I wouldn’t have asked on here, it’s emotive right now. I agree use common sense and go from there.

Honestly though someone saying it’s just a virus, please. we still don’t know enough about this one. I have known people who have stayed in their house bar a daily walk, had food shopping delivered a d wiped it down etc. And still got the virus. Plus it’s the long term health effects we still don’t know enough about. Plus it’s not been 100% confirmed it’s not airborne outside they are still testing this!

I'm doing 3 hrs with the kids to my parents on the 23rd, and returning the next day to spend xmas with DH. It's not worth DM or DH's job if I get caught going early and they link us up. They are stopping people here too (north yorks).

I wouldn't. I don't think I'd go 23rd - 27th either.

My DM was planning on doing an 8 hour round trip for one day to see us, but we have changed it to meet in the middle outdoors.

Everyone should be doing the absolute minimum they can possibily stand. So if it is essential for your mental health, then do it. But if you are asking the question, then the answer is probably no.

When the situation deteriorates in Jan, will you feel like you did everything you could to prevent that?

Tbh I'd risk it. Can't you see your mother in a caring capacity?

Can you not form a support bubble with her if she's on her own? Then you can see her without bending the rules at all.

I don't think the police will do much, but it was reported last week they were stopping people on the border between Wales and England. Have your excuse ready, is Mum was ill, couldn't leave her.

Crack on x x x

I don't know of a single person pulled over in Wales..my dh travel every day to work.and it's never happened

Point one ..you can catch Covid more than once.
Point two how u could even think about be ding rules to suit yourself when there are thousands, yes thousands, of families who will never see their loved ones ever again this Xmas due to Covid and other illnesses not treated in time because of Covid?
No Covid test is 💯 percent especially the quick ones they are now using ( because they spent 122 mill on what are useless tests) and intend to use in homes and schools.
Follow the rules there's going to be huge rise in deaths 3rd week of January because if Xmas or us 530 deaths a day not enough?

Good luck getting over the welsh border, I expect there to be pickets and eggs ready for anyone that dares to cross the threshold.

@CottonSock I live in England but only 2 miles from the Welsh border. There have been plenty of stories locally of people who have been stopped crossing the border. In the 1st lockdown the border on the main road had a police check point on it (so all the locals were using a back road wholly unsuitable for high volumes of traffic) to avoid it. Many have been pulled up and turned back or fined on the A55 into North Wales too throughout the year and especially in the last Welsh firebreak.

I'd do it without a second thought

The evidence of catching covid more than once is shaky, and even then the general agreement is not within 6 months. So if the ops mum definely had covid in October, she's not catching it now from the OP, and 26-29th is not more dangerous than 23rd-27th - its just not legal.

This isn't a safety risk/question but a legal one.

That I cant help you with so much, as I'm a "drive at 30 even if its 2am and the roads are empty" sort of person. Other people take different views.

What's the worst that could happen? Could you afford a fine? Would it cause work problems? You aren't risking infection but a fine. Also it might upset your mums neighbours.

Thanks all for the replies, to answer a couple of questions/adress a few points:

Yes my mum lives alone, a bit of a google says that Wales is continuing bubbles post Christmas but not clear if those bubbles can be from people from England.

She definitely had Covid in October so as @margosKaftan said - evidence of the infection so quickly is pretty limited. So we're happy on that front that her risk is minuscule!

In regards to my work, although I've not asked my unit manager specifically about my situation. She has said in the morning briefing that she understands that some staff are flying back to Ireland and Scotland for Christmas and she also understand that due to tickets and logistics etc. Some will technically be breaking the rules becuase they can't get a flight until the 30th or similar - she has made it clear that as far as she's concerned that's our private business.

It seems that Mark Drakeford has said that the Tier Four restrictions will be in full effect "by the end of the day on the 28th" ... so I may just chance my arm and drive home on the 28th - a day late, but as far as I can see technically within the rules!

Do it. The virus doesn't know what day it is.

I've got to say some of the rules are disproportionate. For example, hotels should be open in tier three. If I have to do an 8 hour round trip, it is much safer for me to do 4 hours one day, stay overnight and do 4 hours the next day than have to do the round trip in one go. I'm much more likely to burden the NHS if I have a car accident than if I somehow get covid in the hotel.

In any event if you want to visit someone who lives alone/is vulnerable/elderly etc you can see them anyway.

It makes me sick to think how blase people are about breaking the rules. Your human rights do not extend to causing harm or death to others. I don't care what the circumstances are there will always be selfish people who continue to flout the rules and it's despicable when so many people have died of Covid.

Im disabled yet I can do an 8 hour journey but then u should not be doing an 8 hour journey in the middle of a pandemic!

Point one ..you can catch Covid more than once.

Highly unlikely, they've counted on one hand they number of people who've had it twice. More likely people thinking they had it early on when they actually didn't, then getting it for real.

Mark Drakeford has said that the Tier Four restrictions will be in full effect "by the end of the day on the 28th" ... so I may just chance my arm and drive home on the 28th - a day late, but as far as I can see technically within the rules!

I certainly would do this.

You can have a support bubble across border England/Wales - I am in one with my dad. And they are stopping people, but it does very much depend on where you are travelling.

In your circumstances I would not give it a second thought, because your mum is hardly at risk from you if she's caught it, and as long as you don't go anywhere else and make sure you don't do anything apart from a quick rest stop if you need one when driving, then you are also not putting anyone else at risk.

I would do whatever you feel is best/ safest.
We’re breaking it by having a family Christmas meal after 27th so we can self isolate beforehand for 10 days after DS finishes school.