How many people actually understand the Christmas bubble rule?

[BananaPie]

It’s supposed to be three households in a bubble, and no mixing outside that.

So if we visit MIL on Xmas day, and she then visits BIL and his family on Boxing Day, that is it. None of us are supposed to see anyone else indoors for the rest of the 5 days.

Do people generally get this? I don’t think it’s been all that clear in the government comms, and seems like loads of people are going to break the rules, and we’ll see a huge number of cases among the elderly in January.

I know people who are more in chains than bubbles, each household taking it in turns to visit others as long at there's not more than 3 at a time - totally missing the point!

We are just seeing people outdoors. We have teenagers at 2 different High schools and I want to protect relatives from them, but also protect the teenagers from the emotional burden of passing a serious illness to their grandparents.

Lots of people get their understanding of the guidance by half-hearing versions of it on the news. They hear “3 households” and stop listening.The whole “exclusive bubble” part passes them by.

Thinking about it, if someone in your Christmas bubble gets a cough on the 28th, the whole 3 households has to S.I. until they get a negative test, right?

Yes, lots of people will just hear 3 households and that’s it. They will meet e.g 2 sets of parents and a sister but those households may be meeting other households. And that’s before you get into support bubbles, childcare bubbles and children who live between two homes anyway. There’s already a lot of mixing which is necessary for day to day life (not to mention, school, work, medical appointments, shopping etc) so we really don’t need to add Christmas into the mix. Exemptions for people who are living alone, terminally ill etc but we really shouldn’t be encouraging the “we always meet up with the entire extended family and Christmas will be ruined if we don’t” brigade.

@BananaPie

I agree with you. I think many people either don’t understand the rules or are interpreting them selfishly so they can do what they like.

I find it especially misunderstood amongst families with early 20’s who live away with partners who want to separately go home for a family Christmas but also want to meet up with friends and boyfriends etc.

Some people who I have spoken to think they are following the rule of 3 households, but are including household members who are also seeing their in laws, boyfriends, girlfriend etc

And also, many people I know seem to be meeting non household members inside in pubs for meals in our tier 2 area now.

There were so many on Facebook I had to look up the rules again to check id read them right.

@FoodDrive

hardbackwriter I agree - and it’s amazing how covid can’t transmit between people in a support bubble

I agree, and a childcare bubble too!

Although I understand how important both these things are, the risks are still very much there.

Whereas people tend to wave them around like a get out of jail free card....

Although I understand how important both these things are, the risks are still very much there.

Whereas people tend to wave them around like a get out of jail free card....
Our support bubble and our childcare bubble are the same people. I agree with you though, there is still a risk and we are all sensible with who else we see, in that we rarely see anyone not from our bubble.

It would be interesting to see how many people treating spurious bubbles as a get out of jail free card have known someone seriously ill with covid or have lost someone to covid. I'm not convinced they'd be quite so keen to mix with dozens of people if they had.

To be honest, I don't really fully understand how it works in practice but we decided ages ago we won't be mixing so I haven't actually tried to understand it. Anyone else majorly sick of the word bubble though, especially it being used as a verb?

All bar 1 of my friends ' get it' one doesn't understand at all.. But then again doesn't pay attention and just thinks it's out of order that her ds has to miss out on so much.
However each and every single one have said their bubble is more than 3..
On for eg. Her household on Xmas day is having her 3 grown up kids from 3 households round, 2 of those kids each live with their inlaws who are seeing other people Xmas day

On boxing day she's going to her dbs. Who is having her mum and 4 other households.

Xmas eve they're going to her husbands work partners for drinks.

Day after boxing day her inlaws are visiting with her dhs 2 brothers

Thats what I know off. All those people visiting her or visa versa no doubt are seeing their own friends or family over that time.

PrivateD00r
Bubble as a verb annoys me too but I have caught myself using it.

For most people the christmas rules are really simple. 3 households can make one big bubble for the christmas period, nobody else gets added and nobody from that bubble goes off to other households.

A household includes anyone in a support bubble, so we have a support bubble and that means that everyone in that bubble counts as 1 household.

In my experience, people who have genuine support bubbles are (on the whole) not finding it too confusing, unless they've got complex family support arrangements for someone vulnerable.

The people who seem to claiming they are super confused about bubbles but totally seeing half their extended family are those who are trying to twist and bend the reasonably clear rules to get as many people in one house over Christmas.

Not sure why are suddenly to be trusted to use our own judgment, we haven’t been allowed to since March.
Things people have done when using their own judgement:
Failed to quarantine after travel and then held a birthday party
Travelled to Scotland by train with symptoms and back again after a positive test result.
Failed to wear masks on public transport
Ignored the rules on funerals and took over a crematorium while others couldn’t
Went on a pub crawl while waiting for test results which turned out to be positive
Went on a pub crawl when supposed to be quarantining after travel
Sent children to school with obvious symptoms
and my personal favourite
Jet skiied from Scotland to the IOM.

I don't think the rules have been made clear enough. I've had to explain the situation time and time again to various friends and family - all intelligent people but who just haven't grasped the exclusivity of the bubbles.

We are spending christmas day with my in-laws (I have no choice in the matter, our lives have been bound to theirs for 20 years and a pandemic isn't getting in the way of them getting what they want - but that's a whole other thread). I'd love to see my siblings (no dps) but I can't, unless I choose one of them and they are also happy to bubble with my in-laws (not a chance). My DSis and DBro have therefore bubbled together and DSis is really annoyed that I won't join them on boxing day. Keeps telling me it's fine because we'll be three households and I won't be seeing the in-laws that day. Despite me spelling out the situation, she seems to think I'm looking for excuses to avoid seeing family. Nothing could be further from the truth. She's also suggested that as DBro's dc are younger, they would really appreciate seeing me so she will do the selfless thing and stay away on boxing day so that I can visit DBro but it's still the same situation and she's just not getting it. She's genuinely not choosing to misunderstand or break the rules, she just doesn't understand that she is essentially putting 4 households together even if she/Dbro don't ever physically see the in-laws. Additionally, I'm pretty sure DBro and SiL are seeing her family over the period so that creates another chain.

I have a friend who insists that she and her two sisters have all formed support bubbles with their elderly, widowed mother. Surely the mother should only be in a bubble with one of them? This friend has two adult DC who live away from home with their own families but because they are her dc, she also seems to think that they will count as one household. So, Christmas Day at their house will consist of: Friend and Husband, their DS , wife and kids, DD and partner, mother, sister#1, husband and son (lives at home), sister no#2, husband and 2 dc with partners and kids each. They have worked out that this is three households, whereas I count minimum 7 and, again, they are almost definitely not accounting for their adult children also seeing their own in-laws. What makes it worse is that friend is a nurse and posts daily on social media about covidiots not following rules.

The rules are very clear if you take the time to look at the detail (or even read more than just the headlines). I'm no fan of Boris and Co but it is very easy for anyone wanting to follow them to check.

I know several groups of people who are generally being very vocal about the need for everyone to follow the rules and calling for tighter restrictions on some things (eg. wanting schools/pubs etc to close) but have chosen to entirely misinterpret the support bubble rules and the Christmas rules. They are intelligent people who are perfectly capable of understanding the rules even if they were complicated but have convinced themselves that in effect a support bubble/Christmas bubble allows them to mix with all the people they are closest to.

I think this is a big problem- some people expect everyone else to accept restrictions regardless of the impact on their livelihoods etc but 'misinterpret' or assume exemptions when the rules would be uncomfortable for them personally.

HalloumiFries It's just extraordinary isn't it? How on earth do people twist and contort it all around to suit their own purposes?

The one that has given me great irony is hearing of somebody who holds a very senior role as a a corporate accountant who somehow cannot quite equate the mathematics behind a bubble of 3 with exclusivity to that bubble. Let's hope they are better at mathematics within their top flight job.

The problem with the Christmas rules is that people have heard something about three households being in a bubble and interpreted this in a stricter way than the legislation sets out.

A lawyer has helpfully dissected the relevant legislation (link twitter.com/adamwagner1/status/1339148187697881088?s=21). As it turns out, the actual position is somewhat less strict and gives households a great deal of freedom over the Christmas period.

Amongst the key points:

• Bubbles can be made up of individuals from households. So individual A from household A can bubble with one or more individuals from households B and C, while at the same time individual B from household A could bubble quite separately with one ore more individuals from households D and E

• Two households which are already in a bubble are treated as one household for the purposes of the Christmas legislation.

• Children who live in two separate households (ie separated parents) can be in two separate Christmas bubbles.

The information about the "Christmas bubble" is actually written down very clearly. The trouble is that most people won't read it, or will just invent their own exceptions.

I find it very interesting on this thread that everyone is talking about "rules" and "guidelines" as if following them was optional. If you don't stick to the 3 households, you are breaking the law. Perhaps we should start referring to it as such?

I understand at the moment but the guidance being published later will confuse me about what is the actual enforceable law rather than just guidance.

@RedskyAtnight Not so. For example, they could allow overnight stays in the legislation and say in the guidance that you should really not.

I don't fully understand it, but I'm going to see my mum on Xmas day (we're in bubble) but my DP (in bubble with me) hasn't seen her for most of this year so he's not going as he's not in her bubble.

Think that's how it works.

Don't burst any bubbles and it should be ok.

The problem with the Christmas rules is that people have heard something about three households being in a bubble and interpreted this in a stricter way than the legislation sets out.

Yes, that's true. When you start allowing for existing support bubbles counting as one household, children of separated parents being able to move between Christmas bubbles, and individuals in single households each being permitted to form their own different bubbles...the number of households that could be mixing quite legally during that period is positively mind-boggling!

The whole thing reflects a massive lack of care and courage on the part of the government, compounded by a large proportion of the population being intent on bending the rules to suit their personal circumstances. We are heading for another massive spike in January, followed by more deaths and further lockdowns. I wish that the government had taken a more responsible approach and that individuals were willing to show a bit more restraint.

I think people understand perfectly well but are beyond scunnered with not seeing families that they are just doing their own thing.

I tend to agree that people are twisting it to their own ends. I grant you DP and I are bot close to our families in that we don't feel that we will keep over for not seeing them this year ( I'm rather pleased die to a strained familial relationship and DP is stoic as he quite likes his dm but it's not sensible) so neither of us really empathise with the insistence of some people to see family over the period.

I mean , single people who are isolated (socially not medically) totally understood , family members who it may be the last Christmas understandable. Aunt sue who has 3 DC and is 48 who can't possibly live without seeing uncle Bob and her in laws and Sarah's cousins niece , yeah that I don't get.

It is a little frustrating though. DC will see their df in the holidays (split family well within the rules) and in theory both houses could be in a bubble with two households , and travel across London.

Fortunately DP and I are not in a bubble with anyone because frankly it would be patently stupid for us to take the risk when we don't need to. So fingers crossed Exdh doesnt suddenly decide to like his never ending , inter marrying tribe from hell.

*keel over

Bloody phone

The jet skier was so stupid wasn't he? The bubbles will burst because most people have husbands or wives or partners with families and people won't not see ' her mum on Xmas day and his mum on Boxing Day and auntie Jean on the Sunday ' or whatever way round it is this year as they have always done etc etc etc
The 3 household rule will soon become a bit vague as time moves on to New Years.