AIBU to think wiping down trolley handles is utterly pointless?

[RaspberryCoulis]

Just back from my weekly trek round Asda to do the shopping. Got hissed at by some woman because I bypassed the queue of people waiting in a (socially distanced) queue to spray and wipe their trolley handles.

I never bother, I have never bothered. Seems utterly pointless. Rates of Covid in my area sitting around 100 per 100,000. That's 0.001%. Even if you believe that 90% are asymptomatic, that would be 1000 per 100,000 or 0.01%. You'd have to be very unlucky for one of the 0.01% to be the person who had the trolley before you.

Then, that person would have had to be not wearing a mask (mask compliance in this town is very high), sneeze/cough/lick the trolley handle (removing their mask to do so), and then i'd have to smear my hands exactly where they'd licked, remove my own mask, and lick my fingers.

A somewhat unlikely scenario.

It's all about the supermarkets trying to show how "covid secure" they are, isn't it? And actually, it makes bugger all difference?

No, I'm living in the same universe as the rest of you. Just one where I don't think it's desirable to attempt the impossible task of sanitising everything and bleaching everything when that's not the way this virus spreads.

Oh gosh I've been to supermarket not question handles in basket gone home forgot to wash hands and touched food I ate...I still survived.

I've crossed multi-lane highways full of traffic on foot and survived. I was lucky. Doesn't mean it's a clever (or sensible) thing to do on a regular basis.

@doireallyneedaname

You do realise that a huge chunk of COVID transmission is happening in supermarkets, right? This information was released a few weeks ago. It makes perfect sense to be as cautious as possible whilst there.

As if.

Very few people who are out and about, seeing people and working outside the home can pinpoint exactly the second at which they contracted covid.

Face to face contact, without masks. That's how you get Covid.

Covid really has brought the germ-phobes and the fear of vomiting people and the "ewww homemade - dirty" people into the mainstream.

And people who read things like VIRUS CAN SURVIVE FOR A WEEK ON PLASTIC and don't question what things like "survive" means, and realise that just because you can detect the presence of something in a lab, that doesn't mean it's there in a fit state to infect you, or on sufficient quantity to do so.

I'll leave you all to soaking your apples in Milton and quarantining your post.

@thesandman

Did I say I did it on a regular basis? No I didn't, so why would you make that assumption?

I'm not an idiot so don't treat me like one thank you.

Do you do everything perfectly every single time? If not then who are you to comment then

Actually it would be interesting to see if the rates of gastroenteritis and the like have fallen since the start of this.

I'll ask my mate. She's a doctor. She hand sanitises and cleans trolley handles. She also went down with it in the very early days of the pandemic after catching it from a patient.

@TheSandman

Oh gosh I've been to supermarket not question handles in basket gone home forgot to wash hands and touched food I ate...I still survived.

I've crossed multi-lane highways full of traffic on foot and survived. I was lucky. Doesn't mean it's a clever (or sensible) thing to do on a regular basis.

Do you honestly think those two remotely carry the same risk?

[quote cyclingmad]@thesandman

Did I say I did it on a regular basis? No I didn't, so why would you make that assumption?

I'm not an idiot so don't treat me like one thank you.

Do you do everything perfectly every single time? If not then who are you to comment then[/quote]
I didn't, and I didn't, or you that you were.

I was just pointing out that extrapolating risk from a small sample base is never a good move.

Why would covid be on the rest of the trolley? The handle is the bit that people hold?

Do you honestly think those two remotely carry the same risk?

Do you honestly think that question was worth asking?

@RaspberryCoulis

No, I'm living in the same universe as the rest of you. Just one where I don't think it's desirable to attempt the impossible task of sanitising everything and bleaching everything when that's not the way this virus spreads.

Umm no, you’re just refusing to sanitise a trolley handle. Nothing impossible about it. You just don’t want to.

I've cleaned my trolly handle for the past 13 years!
It became a habit when I had a child with me old enough to sit in one and I've done it ever since.

@IrmaFayLear

I have always been very cautious of trolley handles, after reading a report - way before covid - about what was found on a sample of them, including faecal matter

Yes, they say coins are filthy - never washed, shoved in pockets and bags, passed from hand to hand to hand - so I don't see why trolley handles are any different.

And people who read things like VIRUS CAN SURVIVE FOR A WEEK ON PLASTIC and don't question what things like "survive" means, and realise that just because you can detect the presence of something in a lab, that doesn't mean it's there in a fit state to infect you, or on sufficient quantity to do so

We don't know if it can or it can't. The scientists you so revere don't know. You certainly don't know.

People have different levels of risk aversion. Some people will be worried that when a virus might be on a surface, they might catch it. Some won't.

You've made a thread to bolster your ego and try to prove that the woman who hissed at you in the shop was WRONG WRONG WRONG. And she was, because people shouldn't hiss at each other.

But if you want the science to prove that she was wrong and you were right in terms of the possibility of virus transmission, it simply doesn't exist.

@RaspberryCoulis

Covid really has brought the germ-phobes and the fear of vomiting people and the "ewww homemade - dirty" people into the mainstream.

And people who read things like VIRUS CAN SURVIVE FOR A WEEK ON PLASTIC and don't question what things like "survive" means, and realise that just because you can detect the presence of something in a lab, that doesn't mean it's there in a fit state to infect you, or on sufficient quantity to do so.

I'll leave you all to soaking your apples in Milton and quarantining your post.

No one has said the virus can survive for weeks on plastic. You keep inventing things to suit your own agenda and then adding hyperbole.

What I posted and you ignored, was that touch points - wherever they are- are being cleaned to avoid transmission.

Your insistence that it can only be caught by breath from another person who is not wearing a mask is WRONG.

A mask gives a tiny amount of protection - some research shows they are only a tiny bit effective BUT over the population the numbers of people protected is significant.

Keypads are known to be filthy- dirtier than a toilet bowl. So it's highly likely that if someone with Covid has wiped their nose, touched their nose, sneezed , coughed or breathed onto their hands, the virus will be on what they touch next.

Ignore at your own risk - but just understand that you risk other people catching it by your actions.

I wear a mask, and use sanitising gel when I get back to the car and before removing my mask. I don't touch my mask or face when I'm pushing the trolley. FWIW. The trolley handle is far more likely to be contaminated than items on the shelf or the interior of the trolley, simply because so many more people touch it and they may have coughed the virus into their hands. Items on the shelf are touched by one person when stacking and will sit there saver all hours/days before you pick it up.

If I want to sanitise the trolley handle I have my own spray which I only use if I have a big shop and will be in the store a long time.

Errrr.... incorrect. I think you need to do some more reading.

Here is one of many opinions of a qualified professional:

www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/laninf/PIIS1473-3099(20)30561-2.pdf

In my opinion, the chance of transmission through inanimate surfaces is very small, and only in instances where an infected person coughs or sneezes on the surface, and someone else touches that surface soon after the cough or sneeze (within 1–2 h). I do not disagree with erring on the side of caution, but this can go to extremes not justified by the data. Although periodically disinfecting surfaces and use of gloves are reasonable precautions especially in hospitals, I believe that fomites that have not been in contact with an infected carrier for many hours do not pose a measurable risk of transmission in non-hospital settings. A more balanced perspective is needed to curb excesses that become counterproductive.

I have already mentioned that constant sanitising breeds compulsive and neurotic behaviour and might create longer term mental health problems (I am repeating myself but still... how many people here have watched "The Aviator" and remember the main character - Howard Hughes?). Unfortunately, I see this behaviour more and more often in real life and in my personal opinion it is a bigger issue than a relatively low risk of COVID transmission via fomites.

According to ECDC:

www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/latest-evidence/transmission

Currently available evidence indicates that COVID-19 may be transmitted from person to person through several different routes. In the scoping review published by La Rosa et al [1], the human coronaviruses primary transmission mode is person-to-person contact through respiratory droplets generated by breathing, sneezing, coughing, etc., as well as contact (direct contact with an infected subject or indirect contact, through hand-mediated transfer of the virus from contaminated fomites to the mouth, nose, or eyes). Infection is understood to be mainly transmitted via large respiratory droplets containing the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Transmission through aerosols has also been implicated but the relative role of large droplets and aerosols is still unclear. Indirect transmission through fomites that have been contaminated by respiratory secretions is considered possible, although, so far, transmission through fomites has not been documented.

I have already mentioned that constant sanitising breeds compulsive and neurotic behaviour and might create longer term mental health problems (I am repeating myself but still... how many people here have watched "The Aviator" and remember the main character - Howard Hughes?). Unfortunately, I see this behaviour more and more often in real life and in my personal opinion it is a bigger issue than a relatively low risk of COVID transmission via fomites.

This is nonsense.

I have seen none of it.

Most people I know are being sensible.

You also need to accept that you know nothing about the ages of posters here.

The risks for someone of 25 are lower than people aged 50+, 65+ and 75+.

They have the right to protect themselves accordingly.

I'm a little astounded really. A trolley handle is a high contact surface. It's obvious you should sanitise it. A loaf of bread is likely to be handled by far less people so is far less likely to spread infection.

in my personal opinion it is a bigger issue than a relatively low risk of COVID transmission via fomites

What lends weight and gravitas to your opinion, though? What makes it believable? Your experience, you say..? And research is for scientists so you won't read it?

I have seen none of it.

So it doesn't exist, does it?

Using this argument, if ECDC has not identified any cases of confirmed fomite transmission, surface transmission does not occur and we can throw away all the hand sanitisers.

There is nothing wrong with being careful in individual personal circumstances but I do not see how some of the posters can shame the OP while having limited knowledge of the actual science.

And research is for scientists so you won't read it?

Oh, I like reading research. I can probably name most cases of suspected fomite transmission used by SAGE and WHO to hypothesise that high touch surfaces might be a risk. However, this risk for COVID is relatively low even at the population level.

So what's the conclusion here then? Do people now feel shamed into wiping down their trolley handle? Im not feeling it.