Govt attempting to force schools to remain open with court order, against advice of PHE

[Bluegreen70]

Just that.

I've never hated any politicians so much

@noblegiraffe

If they want schools open they need to be honest about the risks that will bring at Christmas. They have lied about school infection data but now people know.

People know that the DfE are forcing an action that will kill people.

The DfE need to justify that publicly.

I thought they weren’t stupid enough to keep pursuing herd immunity. But they are. With peoples kids.

Wow. I can’t imagine any of this can be reversed now. Parents here (Waltham Forest) are all ready to stop for Christmas. Some might send their kids back in - but it will take another day to undo the letter that was sent out by the council today and cause a lot of confusion and bad feeling.

Will the government bother to attack WF and Islington?

They’re making themselves look like idiots.

And of course with teachers. This government are way more scary than covid could ever be.

The DfE can’t even run education. They really shouldn’t be taking decisions on health matters.

@BefuddledPerson

But it’s not just for three days, is it? This is going to go on and on and on. At what point do we accept that people (including children) are going to get infected at some stage with a virus that is likely to become endemic - we can’t close schools every other week. My daughter’s primary school has had ONE case and the infection rate in our wider area is actually quite high. Some other local schools have suffered badly with children and teachers isolating but many haven’t, including ours. For as long as my child is able to physically attend, I want her there.

The DfE can’t even run education. They really shouldn’t be taking decisions on health matters.

So so true.

But it’s not just for three days, is it? This is going to go on and on and on

Well maybe the government could pull its finger out of its arse and put some funding into schools to stop it getting to this point again.

Kids crammed into poorly ventilated spaces with no masks for hours a day has one inevitable outcome in a pandemic.

This has been going on for months, millions of kids off school.

So on the assumption that the councils have enough money to go through court (another issue entirely), what would the timescale be for settling the case? Usually government cases trundle on for months on end.

Well with Dominic Cummings actually getting a bit of good press Gavin Williamson has become the most hated man in Britian.

@Notthemessiah

It's fine for their families as all of the private schools have already broken up, so their Xmas is safe - who cares if a few kids in state schools pass COVID on to their grandparents or their families have to self isolate over the holidays?

Not all private schools are shut, my sons finishes on Thursday. I am a head teacher of two state schools and they both finish on Thursday too. So just as much risk for the children in all 3 schools.

@Barbie222

That’s hilarious coming from someone with your username.... perhaps it is you who doesn’t understand - to flip it back, how come so many kids ARE still in school? As I said in another comment on here my daughter’s primary school has had ONE case. The same is true of many other schools in both our area and other parts of the country. I accept Covid is rife in some schools, but why should a whole area be punished because some clearly haven’t got the right protocols in place to protect their students and teachers?

It’s not just 3 days - in Islington they are off until 11 Jan

If things continue as they are could easily see this being extended

Sam Freedman, former education adviser to Michael Gove:

“The DfE have done many dumb things this year but this may be the dumbest. What in the name of God are the playing at?”

My kids broke up last Friday. Up until then they had unbelievably and so luckily had no children test positive (big secondary school). Since broken up had over 20 cases reported plus several teachers. Was just a few days too much it transpired... and this is happening everywhere. They need to shut now. Sorry parents but it really is the only way. For full disclosure I am a teacher too and getting increasingly worried!

some clearly haven’t got the right protocols in place to protect their students and teachers?

What protocol effectively prevents covid spreading in a crowded classroom with no masks?

It is shocking from the government when they say that keeping schools open is national priority but have done almost nothing to make this happen.

No mass testing or any surveillance testing until it is too late.
Changed to policies since sept like schools contact tracing etc making spread more likely.
Gaslighting parents and staff about infection rates in schools.
No extra funding etc.
Threats of legal action to heads struggling to keep schools open etc.
No intention to vaccinate education staff (even after say everyone over 50 has had the jab) despite schools open being a priority

They might as well say the current policy is to keep schools open regardless of infection rate and the cost to pupils their families or staff.

I'm up north and half our staff have had positive tests and we've had kids isolating 5 or 6 times. I'm still struggling with fatigue two months later suffering chest pains etc carrying books around). A 30 year old colleague suffers worse and the gp says they have long covid but can't send him for tests as their waiting list is months long.

If you work in a school you are expendable but then they will turn around and say be very careful so as not to spread the virus.....

@Notthemessiah

Not wilfully blind, no, just realistic. This situation isn’t going to go away any time soon. Children of all ages need an education and to be in school. I accept that for some that sadly isn’t possible at present but for others it is and they should be allowed to attend.

The cynic in me says that :
infection spreading = increased deaths, ergo lower benefits bill for the future.

I don't think so, because the infection spreading, particularly among the young, is going to lead to massive long term costs in disability benefits, and medical care.

some clearly haven’t got the right protocols in place to protect their students and teachers?

What would these be ?

@fridaseyebrows

It’s not just 3 days - in Islington they are off until 11 Jan

If things continue as they are could easily see this being extended

Exactly.

I accept Covid is rife in some schools, but why should a whole area be punished because some clearly haven’t got the right protocols in place to protect their students and teachers?

No, it really is you that doesn't understand. The schools where covid is spreading aren't doing anything wrong. They just happen to have people with covid in them, and because there are not ways to prevent it spreading effectively without either spending money or reducing capacity, neither of which schools can do, any infection there spreads exponentially. If your school has not been affected, it is likely just a matter of time. The councils here understand the role that schools play in tramsmission, even if you don't, and they are wanting to head off a situation where their area is overwhelmed in terms of medical care and key worker availability, perhaps within days.

Plus, your posts are absolutely tone deaf to the parents here who have had their children in repeated isolations since September. Maybe when it happens to you....

@noblegiraffe

some clearly haven’t got the right protocols in place to protect their students and teachers?

What protocol effectively prevents covid spreading in a crowded classroom with no masks?

Exactly. Its not about protocols. The virus spreads especially without masks and SD. It spreads even with mitigations in place! This Government are an utter disgrace.

@noblegiraffe

The DfE can’t even run education. They really shouldn’t be taking decisions on health matters.

This with knobs on.

[quote Crownofthorns]@Barbie222

That’s hilarious coming from someone with your username.... perhaps it is you who doesn’t understand - to flip it back, how come so many kids ARE still in school? As I said in another comment on here my daughter’s primary school has had ONE case. The same is true of many other schools in both our area and other parts of the country. I accept Covid is rife in some schools, but why should a whole area be punished because some clearly haven’t got the right protocols in place to protect their students and teachers?[/quote]
You are completely deluded if you think any school protocols are protecting schools from being inundated. We had every protocol going, and enforced them all rigorously.

It just delayed the inevitable, that's all.

Once it hits your school, you will find all the protocols in the world can do nothing but slow it down slightly

I don't think the reaction of order schools to remain open is anything whatsoever to do with schools per se.

It's mainly about keeping central control of policy and the actions that follow from it. Assuming they see this as a thin end of the wedge situation, when they know they will be facing tough regional negotiations over new year restrictions, and might have to order compliance.

They have, blazingly clearly, got it wrong about this. No-one is suggesting that pupils in Wales have just had their futures wrecked, or that their parents have been unable to cope en masse. No one should be saying that English parents are less able to cope than their Welsh counterparts,

There is no good argument against schools switching to online (with key and vulnerable provision) in the last week of term. And indeed positive advantages if they do - 10 days of sharply reduced school-based mixing running exactly to the start of the permitted Christmas bubble days.

I would be very interested to see what happens if this does end up before a court. Though as pp said, it might all turn on arid points such as the exact strength of PHE advice (I wonder whether a written version of it exists?)