Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Original poster

Oxford vaccine - when?

163 replies

Florelei · 13/12/2020 15:32

I need this to be approved. It feels like it has been a long time coming.

I can’t put up with much more of all this awfulness.

OP posts:
Chaotic45 · 14/12/2020 23:47

@DougRossIsTheBoss I'm sorry that you've caught Covid and I hope you make a swift recovery. Thank you for taking part in the trial.

Thank you for explaining that the trial is ongoing, rather than restarting. I can see though that you've pointed out that it will be ongoing using the full (and seemingly less effective) first dose. Won't they also begin more thorough trials using the lower first dose too- to get more reliable data on whether this improves efficacy?

I can see how the availability of a effective vaccine could put a spanner in the works of the Oxford vaccine trails. Of course those who have taken a placebo will want to know about it and to have the opportunity to be given the more effective vaccine. It certainly complicates things!

Chaotic45 · 14/12/2020 23:48

Sorry- crossed posts!

tobee · 15/12/2020 00:40

Sorry that you have COVID @DougRossIsTheBoss.

Whether or not you had the vaccine or the placebo it's all more data which is going to help.

The pragmatic way of looking at all the cases of COVID, all the various ways people react to the disease, probably the only comfort is that medics and scientists assessing data are learning more.

tobee · 15/12/2020 00:43

Added to that, I don't think sweeping statements about "these trials were rushed through" is fair or helpful.

ForBlueSkies · 15/12/2020 01:33

@tobee

Added to that, I don't think sweeping statements about "these trials were rushed through" is fair or helpful.
Of course they were rushed. They’ve all been rushed. Vaccine development is normally a long, complex process that lasts 10-15 years.

The Oxford trial, in particular, if you look at its protocols in detail, is a scattergun affair. Bless them and the work they’re doing but it’s no surprise that Pfizer keeping it simple has delivered clearer results in the short term.

tobee · 15/12/2020 02:42

The point I'm making is there is an explosion of anti vaxxers in the world to who this loose talk is grist to their mill. They will also be saying future vaccines have been rushed which there is no evidence for. Sweeping statements tarnishing vaccines in development.

I absolutely don't think they were rushed. I think they were expedited. Entirely not the same thing. Language is very important. It's been explained time and time again patiently why it is wrong to say they are rushed by scientists and experts with no skin in the game.

I really strongly object to people casually saying they are rushed. It's incredibly damaging.

tobee · 15/12/2020 02:44

And how patronising is this comment:-

"Bless them and the work they’re doing "

?

MarcelineMissouri · 15/12/2020 06:48

‘Regulators were told about it early on and they agreed the trial could continue’

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55086927

People are again posting on here like the dosing error only recently came to light! It was discovered soon after it happened and correctly reported at the time, near the start of the trial. The trial was approved to continue. So, manufacturing mistake occurs, is quickly identified and is reported to the appropriate authority at the time. That is not my definition of a ‘massive fuck up’.

Also, a good article on vaccine development and how most of that exalted 10 years is spent doing ‘not very much’.

theconversation.com/less-than-a-year-to-develop-a-covid-vaccine-heres-why-you-shouldnt-be-alarmed-150414

Original poster
Florelei · 15/12/2020 12:54

Does anyone know when the next MHRA meeting is? I’ve googled and can’t find this information.

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 15/12/2020 12:56

@Florelei

Does anyone know when the next MHRA meeting is? I’ve googled and can’t find this information.
Is that information in the public domain?

We just need to be patient. This absolutely has to be done correctly and I am reassured that we have a regulator taking the process seriously.

Ethelfleda · 15/12/2020 13:52

I absolutely don't think they were rushed. I think they were expedited. Entirely not the same thing

So well put. I’m definitely using this next time someone remarks in this way!

sashagabadon · 15/12/2020 13:55

@DougRossIsTheBoss

It's not exactly being re-tested it's just ongoing. The trial didn't stop. It's only interim data that was presented. They are still collecting data and with cases rising that's a good thing for the trial. If the MHRA want more data they'll get more data but sadly on the less effective dose regime.

My current Covid infection is a data point one way or another (I have no idea which). That is a slight consolation to me in my throbbing -headache- ruined-Christmas-misery.

The main threat right now is the availability of the Pfizer vaccine. People will need to be unblinded from the Oxford trial in order to be offered the Pfizer vaccine and obviously people are going to want to get an effective vaccine if it's being offered and they've had placebo.

Will they tell you Doug if you had the real vaccine or placebo now you have tested positive? You must be so curious to know?!
rubbishatballet · 15/12/2020 14:03

I posted this on another thread, but we (vaccine hub) have been told that Oxford /AZ approval is currently expected 22 December.

notevenat20 · 15/12/2020 14:51

I posted this on another thread, but we (vaccine hub) have been told that Oxford /AZ approval is currently expected 22 December.

That sounds very exciting.

Original poster
Florelei · 15/12/2020 15:16

Ooh @rubbishatballet did they say whether that means you’ll receive it to start giving out on 22nd or approval on 22nd?

However very exciting either way.

OP posts:
DougRossIsTheBoss · 15/12/2020 16:01

I don't think I do get to know until they unblind the whole trial which I guess they are not keen to do as they are still getting more data

I am curious but actually since I've now had COVID it doesn't matter much to me practically. The thing that would have made me want to be unblinded was the offer of getting the Pfizer vaccine. I wouldn't have wanted to miss out on that if it turns out I've had placebo but it's academic at this point.

rubbishatballet · 15/12/2020 17:13

@Florelei I think it's approval on 22nd and then delivery likely to be a few days after that, as happened with Pfizer. Might be quicker though I guess, given there aren't the same logistical constraints and it's already in this country.

ChaBishkoot · 15/12/2020 18:04

No the massive fuck up wasn’t the dosing error. It WAS an error, that stuff happens. OF COURSE it had to be reported. OF COURSE. If they had tried to cover that up their trial would be over. No questions asked. That wasn’t the fuck up. It was how the data was presented at the end. That was the fuck up. And the claims in the press release.

ChaBishkoot · 15/12/2020 18:06

And yes it’s harder to do a trial now. Basically GSK/Sanofi are screwed because they fell so far behind that certainly in most hubs where they were going to do a trial a vaccine will be available. Which then leaves them with the ‘developing world.’ And a bunch of ethical questions about carrying out trials in countries when those countries don’t get first dibs on the actual vaccine.

Johnson and Johnson which is a single jab should also have their results soon.

Original poster
Florelei · 15/12/2020 18:26

The other thing I was thinking is I heard we’ve signed up to an agreement which means we can only have 20% of our population vaccinated until every other country reaches the same limit.

What will happen if other countries don’t license the Oxford vaccine? Will this agreement still apply? I’m probably overthinking!

OP posts:
ChaBishkoot · 15/12/2020 18:38

I can find this one out for you...give me a few hours. I am not sure this is accurate but I know very little about this part of it. I know some countries like Singapore etc have bought enough vaccines to innoculate their entire population by Q3 of 2021.

MarcelineMissouri · 15/12/2020 18:41

This press release? Press update 8th December?
covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/interim-efficacy-results

I must be missing something (and no I’m not a scientist) because I can’t see the problem - on the information given, it seems clear to me. I personally feel it is the press who muddied the waters on the Oxford numbers.

Original poster
Florelei · 15/12/2020 18:42

@ChaBishkoot don’t put yourself out - I’m really just thinking aloud. Thanks very much for your help though!

OP posts:
DobbyTheHouseElk · 15/12/2020 18:49

There was a panorama last night about the Oxford vaccine.

ChaBishkoot · 15/12/2020 19:14

That 70% figure is achieved through some methodological fudging which as I said up thread if it had been my student, I would be having words with...

I linked to a Wired piece earlier that explained it somewhat better.

Don’t worry- I want to know too! I’m curious too about how the vaccine roll out will happen. (Also desperate to see my family but I am not holding up hope any time soon).