Where are the rest of the vaccines?

[Bathroom12345]

The media is going on and on and on about the 800k vaccines that honestly won’t really touch the sides of this pandemic. When are the next coming or is this it until the New Year?

@Iris1600

Dr June Raine from the MHRA was positively beaming when she talked about the Oxford vaccine to Andrew Marr yesterday - I’m hoping that means good news soon. The Oxford vaccine isn’t “poor” - it’s highly effective. She also said that they had rehearsed for a no deal Brexit and are fully prepared.

Well, as Oxford seems to have made a right mess of its testing, it really isn't clear how effective it is, unfortunately. Somewhere between 60% ish and 90% ish. Maybe.

Please could you link to the evidence that the Oxford vaccine can only be used once?

The Oxford vaccine is highly effective and no one vaccinated with it had to be admitted into hospital.

@cantkeepawayforever

It is 70% for the Oxford vaccine which is higher than the standard flu vaccine .

Then they discovered by accident that if they gave 1.5 x the dose it became 90 % effective.

So actually it’s good to do your research rather that accuse these fantastic scientists of making a mess .

Also the Oxford vaccine is being tested on those with autoimmune conditions which will be a relief to those in that category.

Some people just can’t help but being doom merchants can they .

unsure - no , 62% is the relevant figure.

70% is a false average between the 62% and a small outlier group who received the wrong dose and got 90% (I would like to see the error bars on that figure).

@cantkeepawayforever

I should imagine that this is it, unless and until Oxford is approved - which it is likely to be, however poor it is comparatively, as a no-deal Brexit will make it all but impossible (both practically and politically) to get access to any other vaccines.

Thanks Boris.

I understand the practical issues around getting the vaccines into the country post brexit and that there might be delays, but why do you say it will be all but impossible to get access to any other vaccines apart from the Oxford one? We've already ordered millions of doses of several different vaccines ‐ are you saying that our orders will be cancelled?

What I would like to see is:

• A large scale test of the 'low then high' dose, to give a more robust result.
• A large scale test in the very elderly.

At the moment, we have a vaccine that gives a 62% effectiveness, probably, and is not known to be effective in those groups most affected by Covid (the elderly).

Would i prefer a larger rollout of the 90+% vaccine that has been tested n the elderly? Yes, of course. Will we get it? No. So we will settle for 2nd / 3rd best and talk about how wonderful we are.

there was definitely talk of Pfizer guaranteeing 10 million by the end of this year .Because of some unspecified issues is looks like that might be optimistic but I believe 'several million' are due in 2020 and 40 million before the Spring. That's not including the oxford and moderna.

There is a pic on the welsh government website of the vaccine arriving 'in wales'. The box in the pic is smaller than an easter egg. I hope it was just a poorly chosen stock photo. Have also seen another photo of a slightly more promising sized box arriving in Croydon.

We've already ordered millions of doses of several different vaccines ‐ are you saying that our orders will be cancelled?

Well, what with import duties, and export duties, and paperwork, and legalities about transporting drugs across international borders with no trade deal in place.... if you are a company with a groaning order book, I'm thinking that selling your vaccine elsewhere might be a better bet, and certainly a quicker and easier way of earning money....

There is a pic on the welsh government website of the vaccine arriving 'in wales'. The box in the pic is smaller than an easter egg. I hope it was just a poorly chosen stock photo.

No, I should think that IS the delivery for Wales for the moment.

The whole thing is an elaborate showcase to deflect from the total disaster which is Brexit and the upcoming Christmas plans.

@actiongirl1978

They said 4m by Xmas this morning

That’s good isn’t it? Or do pp not think this is likely

[quote Unsure33]@cantkeepawayforever

It is 70% for the Oxford vaccine which is higher than the standard flu vaccine .

Then they discovered by accident that if they gave 1.5 x the dose it became 90 % effective.

So actually it’s good to do your research rather that accuse these fantastic scientists of making a mess .[/quote]
I'm sure some people want it to fail

That’s good isn’t it? Or do pp not think this is likely

It depends who said it? Pfizer's sales and logistics managers - that's good. Anyone in the English Government - unlikely to be true.

Not - I do not want the vaccine programme to fail.

I want every single highly vulnerable (= elderly) person in the British isles to receive doses of the most effective vaccine available FOR THEIR AGE GROUP at the soonest possible moment.

IO am HUGELY angry at the Brexit mess and Government incompetence that will make this impossible, and irritated by the people who are sufficiently parochial to think that the Oxford vaccine, on current showing, is 'equally good'.

It is, of course, perfectly decent, and much more convenient for those of us who are lower risk and in countries without excellent cold chains. But it is not as good for the current purpose, and the fudging of the results and incompetence around the trials has not increased my confidence in it.

One of the biggest challenges is to ramp up vaccine manufacturing capability. Whilst a country can buy in relatively small numbers of vaccines immediately, these will only cover a limited % of the population, hence the prioritisation of healthcare workers, the very elderly, and the extremely clinically vulnerable. National governments have also bought millions more vaccines, but they won't all been manufactured yet (and some won't be approved so won't get to that stage anyway).

A number of different vaccines are being developed worldwide, which allows scientists to find the right ones for different sections of the population, and should also help with supply chains (you don't want everyone fighting for the exact same components, as there won't be enough to go round). Not all of the vaccines being tested will make it through the stringent testing to be approved for use.

The manufacturing capability worldwide has been ramped up alongside the vaccine development itself, but will still take many months to produce sufficient vaccines to cover a country's population entirely.

What has been achieved already is truly an incredible effort that would have been unthinkable even a year ago.

Can you imagine the headlines if large quantities of a time sensitive vaccine were to be delayed by Brexit? "Vaccine melts in Farage's Garage".

@Barbie222

Can you imagine the headlines if large quantities of a time sensitive vaccine were to be delayed by Brexit? "Vaccine melts in Farage's Garage".

I think that's why they won't even dispatch it. Too much paperwork, too much chance of hold-ups....easier to send it to France, SDpain, Italy, Germany, Netherlands etc etc

Do any of you actually know how customs and paperwork works ?
Items are brought into the country regularly from many many places everyday
I read 4 million doses due in by end of year , remember we are not the only country buying it and storage is hard
Also we have ordered various amounts of several vaccines not just this
Give them a chance to roll it out its not a simple proccess , its not often you have to try and vaccinate a large amount of the population all on one day

** obviously not one day meant to say in a short time

Items are brought into the country regularly from many many places everyday

Yes, but the way things are going, ALL - and i mean ALL- the terms and conditions under which anything is imported from or exported to the EU will change completely from 1st january.

So just because something works smoothly today is absolutely NO guarantee that it will work at all on 1st January. In fact, I can bet it won't, as nobody has even started writing the paperwork.

@Bathroom12345

I thought it was just me who had missed something. 800,000 will only cover 400,000 people. Better than nothing but I am finding the media obsession with the 800k vaccines annoying.

WHERE ARE THE REST OF THEM? Talking about the biggest vaccination project in history isnt really true is it until there are millions and millions of the vaccine being available.

It'll take time. The whole back to normal by Easter was far more false promises by Boris.

Hopefully Oxford can start within a month or so though.

@cantkeepawayforever not everything comes via the eu and I thought a new customs system has been done .
I really don't think a vaccine will be held up other things maybe

There is an awful lot of misinformation on this thread.

The first shipment of Pfizer anywhere was always going to be limited. This is the first example of mass shipment of this vaccine which is incredibly unstable. Plus they are doing more studies on destabilisation as it is moved through the chain at this rate. Not a good idea to ship 10m without a bit of a soft run first.

There is 4 m on the way for December. Thereafter monthly supply of millions of doses. As evidenced by the exponential rise in planned vaccinations. Of course supply is not guaranteed. But who else do you think Pfizer is supplying in December? And Of course they are geared up to supply the orders from UK, Europe and the US ASAP. If they don’t someone else will. They have a small window of monopoly.

Informed betting on Oxford would indicate approval for this week.

There are 818k people in nursing homes in this country someone said so we need 1.6 million doses for them then there are the staff that work in those homes.