Is a change beginning to happen regarding schools? (PART 2) The thread that the DfE felt they needed to comment on

[Covidfears]

Link to previous thread with the gaslighting by the DfE

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4082589-Is-a-change-beginning-to-happen-regarding-schools?msgid=102075920#102075920

if your desks are 2m apart

They aren’t.

She moves around all day everyday with different kids in each class. But school arranges kids to sit with those kids they share classes with eg dd is in 4 of those classes with xxxx so she has to sit with her in all 4 classes to minimise her contacts.

This is not generally possible. If it works for your daughter and xxxx then there will be other children for whom it does not work.

How can the DfE say that when the PHE published data last week that said the 2nd and 3rd most likely place to catch covid was secondary and primary schools respectively?

@Ginogineli

Re bubbles -

This is not the gov fault but schools

You don’t need bubbles in secondary full stop - you just have to track

So what if they share toilets?! That’s not the guidance - it’s 2m for 15 mins end of. It’s nothing to do with passing in corridors, having picked something up in toilets, having been sat in a chair that so and so may have touched in passing - that’s ridiculous. Schools just need a seating plan end of

Same in workplaces - if your desks are 2m apart then no one else is a contact

Many schools can manage it and all should be doing it - they’ve been told to do it!!

Phe act on the info schools give them so if they can’t say who’s been with who then whole year goes home! That’s the schools fault, I know I’m a teacher, sixth form but we have to work in same way.

My dds have been in same class as postive covid on the day they were tested and not sent home as on opposite sides of
room - you may not agree with it but they are over 2m away so phe say not a contact. Without this tracking phe would send them all home

So many schools are sending year groups based on contacts of contacts - just making their own rules up.

Eg It doesn’t matter to Sam if he hangs out with Bob and Bobs mate tests positive - Bob goes home not Sam.

All this disruption is caused by schools not tracking or being too ive cautious. They’re not allowed to send kids home who haven’t had contact with a positive case. As such near me most kids have had none or at most 1 isolation period

Dd is in year 10, has 10 classes inc 4 GCSEs. She moves around all day everyday with different kids in each class. But school arranges kids to sit with those kids they share classes with eg dd is in 4 of those classes with xxxx so she has to sit with her in all 4 classes to minimise her contacts. She has no choice as it’s an arranged seating pla , she’s not even in her social circle but it reduces the number of different people sat around her

It works - my other dd in year 7 was sent home the other day as her mate tested positive - my dd sits next to her in 6/10 classes so only 8 kids total (out of year) sent home

Bubbles are not simply not needed if you track

When it comes to social contact at lunch and on the bus etc the kids are simply asked who are you with - it’s not policed - no one runs round like headless chickens watching cctv

Workplaces don’t do this - they track - schools need to take some responsibility and employ methods to reduce contacts

If your kida randomly go to lessons sitting next to anyone they like you need to be asking questions why

Sounds simple in theory.

There are three positive cases in my son's form. Each is in Y10 so options classes involved too, school dinners etc. This is very different to your example of one case in Y7 sadly and certainly resulted in more than just 8 children being sent back.

@Ginogineli

Re bubbles -

This is not the gov fault but schools

You don’t need bubbles in secondary full stop - you just have to track

So what if they share toilets?! That’s not the guidance - it’s 2m for 15 mins end of. It’s nothing to do with passing in corridors, having picked something up in toilets, having been sat in a chair that so and so may have touched in passing - that’s ridiculous. Schools just need a seating plan end of

Same in workplaces - if your desks are 2m apart then no one else is a contact

Many schools can manage it and all should be doing it - they’ve been told to do it!!

Phe act on the info schools give them so if they can’t say who’s been with who then whole year goes home! That’s the schools fault, I know I’m a teacher, sixth form but we have to work in same way.

My dds have been in same class as postive covid on the day they were tested and not sent home as on opposite sides of
room - you may not agree with it but they are over 2m away so phe say not a contact. Without this tracking phe would send them all home

So many schools are sending year groups based on contacts of contacts - just making their own rules up.

Eg It doesn’t matter to Sam if he hangs out with Bob and Bobs mate tests positive - Bob goes home not Sam.

All this disruption is caused by schools not tracking or being too ive cautious. They’re not allowed to send kids home who haven’t had contact with a positive case. As such near me most kids have had none or at most 1 isolation period

Dd is in year 10, has 10 classes inc 4 GCSEs. She moves around all day everyday with different kids in each class. But school arranges kids to sit with those kids they share classes with eg dd is in 4 of those classes with xxxx so she has to sit with her in all 4 classes to minimise her contacts. She has no choice as it’s an arranged seating pla , she’s not even in her social circle but it reduces the number of different people sat around her

It works - my other dd in year 7 was sent home the other day as her mate tested positive - my dd sits next to her in 6/10 classes so only 8 kids total (out of year) sent home

Bubbles are not simply not needed if you track

When it comes to social contact at lunch and on the bus etc the kids are simply asked who are you with - it’s not policed - no one runs round like headless chickens watching cctv

Workplaces don’t do this - they track - schools need to take some responsibility and employ methods to reduce contacts

If your kida randomly go to lessons sitting next to anyone they like you need to be asking questions why

Seriously? What year group do you teach? Have you been in a ks1 classroom? 2m apart is impossible.

They may not spend 15 minutes in a toilet but they are all touching the same things which cannot be cleaned in between. Surely you can see how this can spread germs of any kind.

This type of attitude is what makes me despair. Someone who has clearly no idea is wading in and shouting loudly about how it's the school's fault.
Please stop it. It's dangerous.

WOW at that DfE statement!

middleager - Schools Week piece
schoolsweek.co.uk/the-governments-covid-response-has-gone-from-shameful-to-shameless/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

'The government’s Covid response has gone from shameful to shameless'

I also think the support from our unions are shameful too. A great sentiment from Mary but what is she doing about it? I've had no response what so ever to 2 emails I've sent to the NEU, and no response to my last email to my MP. It is a disgrace. Even in this article Mary mentions keeping schools Covid-secure. They are not. Has she been in a school this term? Is she listening to her members?

On her Twitter feed posters are asking Mary what she's doing about it. My MP is equally useless on this.

Schools just need a seating plan end of

Saying "end of" doesn't make the previous sentiment any more workable. Schools need seating plans, and staying in fixed positions within a classroom does reduce the number of contacts being sent home. But in my yr 13 class there are no two students with the same timetable - they all take different options. So they simply cannot have the exact same seating for each lesson.

I know I’m a teacher, sixth form but we have to work in same way.

I teach the full range from year 7 to year 13. A level classes are simply not the same as lower school. Though the fact that you don't teach year 9 perhaps explains why you think set seating plans are the best idea. I need the option to move children who aren't behaving well. Not an issue at A level, obviously, but definitely a big problem with lower school.

This is not the gov fault but schools
You don’t need bubbles in secondary full stop - you just have to track

These two statements contradict each other. The government told us to use bubbles in secondary schools.

@ChloeCrocodile

Schools just need a seating plan end of

Saying "end of" doesn't make the previous sentiment any more workable. Schools need seating plans, and staying in fixed positions within a classroom does reduce the number of contacts being sent home. But in my yr 13 class there are no two students with the same timetable - they all take different options. So they simply cannot have the exact same seating for each lesson.

I know I’m a teacher, sixth form but we have to work in same way.

I teach the full range from year 7 to year 13. A level classes are simply not the same as lower school. Though the fact that you don't teach year 9 perhaps explains why you think set seating plans are the best idea. I need the option to move children who aren't behaving well. Not an issue at A level, obviously, but definitely a big problem with lower school.

This is not the gov fault but schools
You don’t need bubbles in secondary full stop - you just have to track

These two statements contradict each other. The government told us to use bubbles in secondary schools.

This.

In addition to this, at my school, sixth form pupils have lessons at other sites in order for them to have a wider access to range of A-levels.

In addition to this, at my school, sixth form pupils have lessons at other sites in order for them to have a wider access to range of A-levels.

Same here, and quite a few students come to us from other schools.

@ChloeCrocodile, I take your point. It's not unrealistic to think that they don't actually have a strategy. I hope you manage to stay safe.

I may teach sixth form but my dds are year 7&10 and their schools do this with their option groups
Mostar round here
Whether you think they touch taps etc that aren’t cleaned is irrelevant - that doesn’t make them a contact whether to think it’s a risk or not

Contact is about being face to face within 2m

Yes I know desks in school aren’t 2m apart but draw a 2m radius around the positive child and ask yourself why those outside are included? They are not contacts. I can’t work out of its lazy or paranoia to do this

Why is joe bloggs sent home in year 8 who never speaks to the child who’s positive? They’re are no ppe guidelinea that say they’re a contact

Sharing surfaces is not a contact

Yes to bubbles in sense of minimising contacts not the whole year!! I simply can’t undestand why a child sat on opposite side of room from a covid child is sent home

There is no basis for it unless they’ve spent 15 mins within 2m

In secondary groups there are kids who never mix - social circles are pretty tight and whilst they mewt in classes they don’t mix with the whole class unless your rooms are 2m x 2m

My students have managed to figure out that only sending home the nearest kids in the seating plan is a pile of bollocks and isn't working, leading to multiple isolations as the virus works its way through the year, sometimes causing symptoms that trigger a test, sometimes not. As they have pointed out, sending them all home for two weeks would have been less disruptive and more effective.

The obvious solution when a year group is clearly riddled is to test them all.

ginogineli, tbh I think you are talking absolute nonsense. You clearly have absolutely no idea what is going on inside secondary schools.

• schools are tracing and only sending home actual close contacts, as they have been advised to do by the relevant government department. They were initially sending home whole year groups (again, following government guidance) but it was decided (by the government) that too many kids were being sent home, so now contact tracing is done instead.
• where whole bubbles / year groups are being sent home to isolate it is because the relevant government department has decided that there is likely an actual outbreak within that bubble and that all those children need to go home. This decision is not made by the schools.
• where whole year groups are sent home due to staffing problems it doesn't matter what bubble anyone is in. The school keep in as many year groups as possible, prioritising exam years.

In fact, the problem most teachers have at the moment is that the above measures (which you are so fond of and are already in place) aren't sufficient in keeping covid at bay in secondary schools.

Noble - I said this yesterday. Son's year group has four cases, they're not sending them all home just "close contacts" bollocks, so fully expecting more.
If the school had access to some of those rapid tests they could test the whole lot of them - and give a real idea of who needs to be at home and who doesn't.
Year 11, mock exam week. Some of them are now doing mock exams from home, and promising not to cheat.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/independent-sage-coronavirus-infection-schools-b1762906.html
A poster called CantaloupeIsland posted this on a Staffroom thread.

@Ginogineli

I may teach sixth form but my dds are year 7&10 and their schools do this with their option groups Mostar round here Whether you think they touch taps etc that aren’t cleaned is irrelevant - that doesn’t make them a contact whether to think it’s a risk or not

Contact is about being face to face within 2m

Yes I know desks in school aren’t 2m apart but draw a 2m radius around the positive child and ask yourself why those outside are included? They are not contacts. I can’t work out of its lazy or paranoia to do this

Why is joe bloggs sent home in year 8 who never speaks to the child who’s positive? They’re are no ppe guidelinea that say they’re a contact

Sharing surfaces is not a contact

It's an airborne virus. If you spend an hour in a small room breathing the same air as someone who has covid, then 2m is pretty irrelevant.

@EndoplasmicReticulum

Noble - I said this yesterday. Son's year group has four cases, they're not sending them all home just "close contacts" bollocks, so fully expecting more. If the school had access to some of those rapid tests they could test the whole lot of them - and give a real idea of who needs to be at home and who doesn't. Year 11, mock exam week. Some of them are now doing mock exams from home, and promising not to cheat.

It makes me feel a bit better that they’re allowed to do the mocks at home. I’m terrified one of us will come out with symptoms in the next two weeks, and DS’s GCSE’s might as well be thrown under the bus with him

@noblegiraffe

The obvious solution when a year group is clearly riddled is to test them all.

There were supposed to be mobile testing units for schools weren’t there. I suppose now the gov have moved from shameful to shameless they don’t feel the need to bother.

I also don’t understand why people coming into the uk from high risk areas can get round quarantine by testing on day 5. Why can’t students identified as close contacts have this? Sitting around at home for repeated 14 days isolating is so bad for them (and probably unnecessary, all it needs is some money thrown at it).

Won’t hold my breath!

Wow. I am actually really shocked that Mumsnet posted a message sent from the DfE on that other thread.

I think it's funny they waited until the thread was so nearly full though. That says to me that they were obliged to put the DfE crap on there, but waited (as they said themselves) until the last possible minute when the thread was about to shut down.

As a result of my thinking (which may be wrong of course) I'm less shocked by Mumsnet than I am by the DfE.

Wow just wow. Why am I so shocked ...

@Covidfears as a pregnant secondary school teacher where school have said I cannot work from home in my third trimester I will sue the pants off them if anything happens to my baby or me.

This is probably because education settings are rigorously enforcing all the mitigations – handwashing, mask wearing, bubbles, isolation of staff and pupils with symptoms etc

Are they fuck, especially when they don't wear fucking masks in packed classrooms with no social distancing.

Fucking liars.

The DfE are putting pressure on head teachers not to send so many students home or bubbles if there is a case.