Teachers not self isolating

[Clearasmuddypuddles]

I’ve been notified that I have taught a student who tested positive for COVID. He sits on the front row of my classroom. I cannot physically be 2m away from him when explaining the work at the board. I have to hand out worksheets and supervise work, from 2m of course.

The entire class (over 70% of which are more than 2m away from this child) has to self isolate. I don’t, because as a teacher I am meant to be 2m away.

This is the case in every school I know. Staff are putting themselves and their families at risk because they are not allowed to self isolate when they have been in contact with a positive case.

You should be mainly staying 2 metres away. Handing out worksheets etc isn't sustained close contact that would trigger the need to self isolate.

You self isolating would be to protect other students - not to protect you or your family - your or your family are no more at risk if you are at school than at home (your family are probably less at risk of catching from you if you are infectious and at school rather than infectious and at home with them). Outside of work hours, there is nothing stopping you isolating from family if you wish to do so.

I don't think that teachers should be self isolating unless they've had significant close contact with an infected child. And they shouldn't be having significant close with any child if they are following guidelines.

@mrsm43s then explain why the half of the class on the other side of the room have to isolate?

Or when why a teacher tested positive last week all their classes had to isolate even through they are 2m away?

The regulations don’t make any sense.

I expect they cannot know what mixing goes on at break and lunch between the children? And it is more sustained contact than you have with them? Can you get a child to hand out sheets, that is what happens here?

I don't see how not isolating is putting your family at risk though? You can still isolate from vulnerable family members as a precaution surely.

Totally disagree @mrsm43s because it is close contact being in a classroom for an hour lesson at a time unmasked breathing in the shared air.

The guidelines are not fit for purpose as many classrooms can’t fit the whole class in and keep a 2 metre distance. What about protecting the other students the OP teaches (if secondary) as they could catch it from the OP.

The guidelines are full of ‘where possible.’ It is a get out of jail free card to allow schools to run as normal. These are not normal times. So much talk in the guidance about bubbles to allow for self isolation. What’s the point if the people most at risk in the room, the adults, are not allowed to self isolate.

To the OP - YANBU. Absolutely disgraceful treatment of school staff. Hope you stay well 💐

If you believe you were a close contact with the dc, surely you need to tell the head that? Explain that you couldn't maintain the 2m distance that they think you have?

We have one positive teacher in our school and 5 others are off isolating as they didn't SD in the staff room. The head seems to be understanding with this so it isn't all schools thankfully.

At our children's school the teacher had to isolate when a child tested positive, mind you they are primary. Are these the secondary regulations?

When there is a positive case at my school the whole bubble closes to self isolate including all adults. Strange that you don't

Handing out worksheets etc isn't sustained close contact that would trigger the need to self isolate
And what about 'explaining work at the board', which the OP also mentions as being impossible to do while maintaining 2m distance?
It is obvious that conditions in schools are unsafe and that the isolation protocols are inconsistent.
Masks for all secondary pupils would help. A bit.

2 metres isn't a magic distance. Presumably the teacher is breathing the same air in the classroom as the students for an hour ish?
No masks?
In any other situation you'd have to isolate. Boris isolated after being in a meeting with that MP.

It’s an absolute scandal that teachers in secondary schools are being made to go into work when they have been in classrooms with positive cases.
This is why the highest infection rate is in that age group. It’s just going round and round in circles.

english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

Scroll down to the classroom - the scenario here is if the teacher is infected but asymptomatic/presympomatic (which seems ever more likely given the OP). Absolute scandal teachers are being told not to isolate - I think it's criminal negligence.

From the link:
If two hours are spent in the classroom with an infected teacher, without taking any measures to counter the number of aerosols, there is the risk that up to 12 students could become infected.

In real outbreaks, it has been noted that any of the students could become infected irrespective of their proximity to the teacher as the aerosols are distributed randomly around the unventilated room.

2 metres isn't a magic distance

This.

Duration of exposure is important. As is ventilation.

Given the choice between spending 1m outside for 10 minutes with someone with covid and 2 hours inside a classroom 2m away, I know which I'd choose.

@EndoplasmicReticulum

2 metres isn't a magic distance. Presumably the teacher is breathing the same air in the classroom as the students for an hour ish? No masks? In any other situation you'd have to isolate. Boris isolated after being in a meeting with that MP.

And even if it was a magic distance, at 2m with the infected pupil not wearing a mask more than 15mins would be enough to make the teacher a contact. And lessons are more than 15mins long.

The idea that a teacher of a front row pupil isn’t a contact and is fine not to self isolate is ludicrous. The problem is for the government to admit that they’d have to admit they’ve been lying about schools.

Regardless of whether we think the regulations are correct/what we think the risk is, the OPs complaint is that she and her family are put at risk because she can't self isolate. That's simply not true. If she has been close enough for the risk of infection, then the people who are put at risk by her not isolating are her pupils (and other teachers, but they should be socially distancing from her). I'm not saying that's OK, I'm saying she's not putting herself and her family at greater risk by not self isolating.

I'm a secondary teacher and agree the "exemption" for teachers not isolating because we can magically teach from the other side of the corridor (most classrooms do not allow a 2m space at the front) are ridiculous.

BUT this particular aspect isn't putting us or our families at more risk than we already are... That's achieved simply by being in an unventilated room for an hour with no mask...In fact, our families are at less risk because we're still out at work all day. The increased risk is to the other classes we teach that we're going to spread it between classes /year groups /bubbles.

Agree with pp, there is no way teachers can keep 2m away from pupils in a classroom and do their job and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous and just a way to blame teachers for what is an impossible situation.

Fucks me off - I accept that we have to go in and do our job and we can't wear ppe, but I can do without the sanctimonious "if you are following guidelines then there's no problem" from people who obviously don't know what goes on in a school - or more like, don't care.

Its an absolute disgrace and completely inconsistent.
Wearing a mask and distancing ( which cannot be done in reality) does not prevent you from getting infected when you are in a too with x amount of children.
I hope at some point, these disgraceful decisions are exposed.

@iwantmyownicecreamvan

Agree with pp, there is no way teachers can keep 2m away from pupils in a classroom and do their job and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous and just a way to blame teachers for what is an impossible situation.

Fucks me off - I accept that we have to go in and do our job and we can't wear ppe, but I can do without the sanctimonious "if you are following guidelines then there's no problem" from people who obviously don't know what goes on in a school - or more like, don't care.

Totally agree.

Yes it’s secondary. I know what the reason is- the email to notify me went to 11 staff, all from one positive case. We have 5 other current cases in other year groups. We would have no staff if we were all isolating.

But it think it’s a disgrace. Would you be happy with a teacher teaching your child when they have been in the same room as a positive person for an hour? My own family I can isolate myself from, but I can’t isolate from the rest of the school where it is business as usual.

@Clearasmuddypuddles

I’ve been notified that I have taught a student who tested positive for COVID. He sits on the front row of my classroom. I cannot physically be 2m away from him when explaining the work at the board. I have to hand out worksheets and supervise work, from 2m of course.

The entire class (over 70% of which are more than 2m away from this child) has to self isolate. I don’t, because as a teacher I am meant to be 2m away.

This is the case in every school I know. Staff are putting themselves and their families at risk because they are not allowed to self isolate when they have been in contact with a positive case.

This happened to my friend who works in a secondary school. The head told the class to isolate, but not her. She went to HR and kicked off. In the end they let her self isolate when she said she would contact her Union and PHE and find out for herself.

@Sb2012 we’ve had quite a few cases now, teachers are never isolating. We would have to close the whole school as this one case today alone takes out 11 staff.

Its the unsafe close environment she's in thats a risk the the OPs family not whether she isolates or not (unless she's got a massive house that she can live self contained away from anyone else). If she has been in a close contact with a positive case then the risk to her not isolating is to the other pupils she teaches or anyone outside her household she has any contact with.

Would you be happy with a teacher teaching your child when they have been in the same room as a positive person for an hour?

No, I absolutely would not. Some of the kids you're supposed to be teaching may well have ECV or CV parents at home who risk death if they catch coronavirus. It's utterly unforgivable of the school.

Can you do as PP friend has done and go to HR / Union /PHE.

At the very least parents should be informed so they can keep their kids off if they wish to do so. If a teacher who's been exposed isn't wearing a mask, then see the example I linked upthread.

@IloveJKRowling apparently it isn’t my schools decision, they are saying it’s PHE who are advising them.

Wow. It just keeps getting worse doesn't it. I'm CV and terrified of kids bringing it home. We know that crowded, indoor spaces with little ventialtion is high risk. This is why we aren't allowed families in our houses, even at 2m.

The article Ilovejk linked to explains this really well for those who dontnunderstand the 2m thing. When you're teaching in a badky ventilated room for 2 hours its no longer about the distance as it spreads in the room.

I also wonder if after the really bizarre goverment post we have some people posting in their behalf. This would sound so off the wall if it wasnt really happening :(