Teachers not self isolating

[Clearasmuddypuddles]

I’ve been notified that I have taught a student who tested positive for COVID. He sits on the front row of my classroom. I cannot physically be 2m away from him when explaining the work at the board. I have to hand out worksheets and supervise work, from 2m of course.

The entire class (over 70% of which are more than 2m away from this child) has to self isolate. I don’t, because as a teacher I am meant to be 2m away.

This is the case in every school I know. Staff are putting themselves and their families at risk because they are not allowed to self isolate when they have been in contact with a positive case.

@Goingdooolally

In our school it’s front row only that’s deemed close contact as less than 2m. So when a teacher has tested positive the whole of the front row of all the classes they teach have had to self isolate. No teacher has had to self isolate yet due to a pupil testing positive....

It also blows my mind that they think we can teach from the front and not move about the classroom.

I’m in a school that if I’m not constantly circulating the room the kids would really mess about and do jack shit work. The front row would do some work, the second row a tiny bit and the third and forth wouldn’t do a thing and would disrupt everything else.

That’s not even mentioning the daily fights we have to break up.

This is awful and so completely different to how it is in my LA. Anyone meeting the definition of a close contact has to SI and if there's any uncertainty about it,we err on the side of caution and go with SI. I'm in Scotland so it's PHS who call the shots and they are really strict/detailed when working out who the contacts are.
I don't know why teachers in England aren't out on strike. I am honestly appalled when I read stuff like this.
Oh, and PPE is provided to staff and they are encouraged to wear masks all day long if they want to. Strict timetabling/bubbles to reduce numbers of contacts, cleaning materials in each classroom, increased cleaning regime, ventilation system has been checked, furniture rearranged to ensure 2m, individual risk assessments for vulnerable staff. I know that in some schools, vulnerable teachers have been able to get a screen around their desk if they've been risk assessed as requiring additional protection. It is possible to make schools safer.

In my school we have had some children isolating due to close contact with others but no staff isolating as a result. We have had a handful of staff isolating as their own children are isolating dnd obvious need child care at home but the cover is much less than usual for this time of year -presumably as other illnesses not circulating and no courses etc.

I also don't understand the difference in the advice that supposedly PHE (or is it DfE now?) Is giving out. It's like they are making it up as they go along .
Our yr11. 2 positive cases, half year group out. No staff.
My sister works in a much larger school and says that 1 positive case and the whole yr group isolates.
Both secondary. Both have similar covid arrangements regarding SD etc.

Why is this? Why haven't the media picked up on this because even parents around here are questioning it. Other local schools have also had whole bubbles isolating and we haven't.

I really don't understand how they can expect teachers to teach from the front and not circulate. Also, what about support staff? I'm a TA, and I would be absolutely no use up the front. I teach my own maths set and I have to circulate constantly or they wouldn't do anything (but I can and do circulate behind them, which means we're not face to face). The only time I manage to stay 2m apart from pupils is when I do a phonics intervention which is a mixture of my year group and another - I'm at the front with the two children from my year group less than 2m away from me, then the other year group 2m away from both me and the children from my year group (with the two siblings - one in each year group - forming a convenient bridge!).

Amazingly, we haven't had any cases in my school yet, but if one was reported this morning, I'd be hard pushed to find a child in my class I hadn't been a close contact of in the past 48 hours. I'd also be a close contact of my teacher, but not the other members of staff in the year group (despite being a year group bubble) because we're constantly reminded to stay 2m away from all other staff (but recognising this isn't always possible if you work really closely with someone).

Your school don't seem to be adhering to the rules. Although we are meant to keep a 2metre distance, it's not always practical (I also teach). We have to be honest and tell them if we've been closer and self isolate if so. Means lots of people off, but so be it!

@PrivateD00r

If you believe you were a close contact with the dc, surely you need to tell the head that? Explain that you couldn't maintain the 2m distance that they think you have?

We have one positive teacher in our school and 5 others are off isolating as they didn't SD in the staff room. The head seems to be understanding with this so it isn't all schools thankfully.

i hope the 5 self isolating because they didn't keep to the rules are not being paid every other job you have to social distance

And they shouldn't be having significant close with any child if they are following guidelines.

This made my teeth grind. Some people have zero idea of what it's like to be a teacher with a child or teen with additional needs in their class.

Or be a teacher of children and teens in an SEN school.

And phe are taking it seriously round here.

Half an hour of one dinner staff serving dinner in a classroom with a mask on and early symptoms, then testing positive the next day triggered a whole class self isolating at my sons school.

This is a national scandal.

It is criminal negligence.

Clear the government just wants to keep schools open at all costs.

What I’m not so sure about is why it seems different schools are applying different rules. I suspect the “guidance has been written in a deliberately vague way”.

I have the utmost respect for teachers and every day they are going into work to put themselves in harms way for our children’s sake.

I hope everyone is bringing this up with their Unions and the Unions are amassing and cataloging the evidence.

everythingthelighttouches
The government have managed to spin schools so well that all over mumsnet there's smug posters saying 'well surely if you kept 2m then you'd be fine so obviously teachers aren't following the rules' and then outright goady posters who want schools open at any cost whilst claiming 'teachers just don't want to go to work... why do teachers always moan'.

Even in the press at the minute most photos of classrooms are half empty, socially distanced stock photos from before the summer.

A large portion of parents don't give a shit

sadly I agree with this. I am very pissed off with the parents especially

What makes you think a large portion dont give a shit? And what are you pissed off with parents about?
I've no doubt that there will be some parents who don't care and do send in dc with symptoms or awaiting tests , why anyone would do this is beyond me so I can see your frustration but I doubt these parents account for a large proportion, more like a small minority who make the rest look bad.
What exactly have parents done wrong? Why pissed off with them ? Parents have had about as much say in whats going on as teachers have. Its shit all round. Im sick of all the parent bashing , overall parents aren't to blame for this shit storm its the governments lack of planning and funds but its easy for them to pit teachers v parents to deflect the blame from them.
They release stupid guidelines about maintaining 2m distance, I've not been in a classroom for 20yrs but even I know it's impossible, so when interaction happens from teacher to child, parent goes mad as guidelines say teacher should stay 2m apart and vice versa teacher doesn't need to isolate because of course they have always been able to maintain 2m distance. Its bullshit!
Parents and teachers should be coming together not blaming each other for incompetent measures put in place by government

Parents and teachers should be coming together not blaming each other for incompetent measures put in place by government

Yea this completely. The media / government have put a great spin on this whole thing trying to play off one against another. And fwiw lots and lots of teachers are parents.

Butmiss so they sent year 5 home but not the staff in that class ?
I understand what you mean about other staff but surely they should send home the staff in the classroom with the positive case. That’s always been my experience anyway.

You're right, 3littlewords, we should be working together and not pitted against each other. Your post makes sense. But...you are a little naive if you think it's a small minority not doing the right thing. It really isn't. Almost daily we have children removed from classes as parents phone to say they or siblings have tested positive. Children are sent in whilst family members await results knowing they may have the virus. Sleepovers happening all over the place. Children sent in all the time with symptoms themselves.

I appreciate because you wouldn't do that, you assume others wouldn't. And your frustration with teachers' frustration makes sense in that context. But I genuinely now think it's a minority doing the right thing and not the other way around.

@everythingthelighttouches

This is a national scandal.

It is criminal negligence.

Clear the government just wants to keep schools open at all costs.

What I’m not so sure about is why it seems different schools are applying different rules. I suspect the “guidance has been written in a deliberately vague way”.

I have the utmost respect for teachers and every day they are going into work to put themselves in harms way for our children’s sake.

I hope everyone is bringing this up with their Unions and the Unions are amassing and cataloging the evidence.

I agree with this. I am really happy that my dc's school are applying 'additional' rules not in the current guidance, and using common sense, their own research and knowledge, together with robust risk assessments, to try and keep everyone as safe as possible in what is, clearly, a risky environment for staff and children.

All staff and students sanitise their hands on entry and exit of each classroom, and they all wear masks at all times (unless exempt) including in lessons, at break times and when moving around the school between classes.

My dc both wear masks despite being exempt, as they understand it is one way they can help protect themselves and others from spreading COVID, they don't enjoy it but they agreed to give it a try before I applied for the exemption and they are managing well, despite their sensory issues, so are going to continue. There was a few rumblings on facebook etc from other parents who felt it was unnecessary as the 'guidelines' say staff and pupils don't need to wear masks in lessons...but mostly people were accepting that it is one measure we can all take to try and reduce spread within school.

All rooms are ventilated as well as possible, they put the heating on for several hours before school starts to warm the buildings a bit, but it is off during the school day and windows are opened.

There have been two positive cases so far in a secondary school with over 700 students, plus staff, who have 5 different lessons a day.

All children are split into year group bubbles who don't mix at all, and dining hall, PE changing rooms etc are cleaned thoroughly between each group's use of them. They have employed two additional full time cleaning staff who regularly clean all touch points throughout the day and thoroughly clean classrooms after school each day too.

I have full confidence they are doing everything possible to protect staff and students and interpreting the 'guidelines' in as safe a way as they can, but not every school will be doing this and I really disagree with the govt passing over the responsibility for issuing advice regarding who has to isolate and what current guidelines are to the DoE, who have been told 'schools must stay open no matter what'.

It was bad enough when PHE were saying only those students who were sat next to/in prolonged close contact with other students needed to SI, originally the advice was whole bubbles, but as soon as the govt realised this meant lots of pupils and staff having to isolate and meant it was likely that schools would have to close due to lack of staff, suddenly it became unnecessary for exposed staff to isolate?

It's all to cover up the fact that the govt have consistently lied to teaching staff and the general public that 'schools are safe', in my opinion.

Schools are no safer than any other inside environment where people have to be in close proximity to others, it is not possible to maintain 2m distances at all times and effectively teach pupils, and in enclosed spaces it's the aerosols we need to be concerned about not the droplets anyway!

I don't know the answers but I would hope that school SLT's would want to protect their staff as much as humanly possible, both for health and welfare reasons, but also to be able to maintain a sufficient number of staff to run their schools safely.

I think it's important that children do attend school for their education, however, it should not be at the cost of risking staff health and welfare.

I am very grateful that my dc's school and their teachers are all doing everything they can to ensure pupils and staff are as safe as possible and still able to attend school and be educated.

It's v confusing .My son's school says in letter to parents that no further action ( ie no one else self isolating after TA tests positive ) that the advice is

"from XXXTrust ,London Borough XXX,and from Public Health England through the DfE "

and ,sorry for missing this ,what has happened to the app ? I thought ppl downloaded it and then test and trace notified you if you'd been in close contact and then you had to isolate ?

Is it that school staff told to turn app off ??

@peridito mobiles phone are not allowed in my school and so the NHS app wouldn’t work anyway. We haven’t been formally directed to turn it off, but aren’t allowed our phone in the classroom anyway.

oh ,of course ! face palm ! I'd forgotten that .

@starrynight19 the class with the positive case were sent home, but the other year 5 class were kept in school. Even though they are in the same bubble. I don't understand why the teachers of the class sent home are still in, they're even covering other bubbles

Butmiss That’s absolutely crazy. What is the point of bubbles in primary then if they don’t send the whole bubble home including staff ?

Its the same situation at my school. I'm a TA though so actually sit with students and one of the children in one class i work has tested positive and the while class has been sent home, the teacher and I haven't even been consulted to see if we felt we were close contacts. I'm not worried about my own health as I'm not in an at risk group, but I'm more concerned with passing it on to the other students in other years that I work with, always in very close contact, and one student with asd who likes to touch me and touch all my pens etc. I fear that it will just spread like wildfire now it's in our school (last Friday we had had no cases, today we are up to 7!) And as you say, there could be ecv members of family at home. It's an absolute disgrace the way school staff are being treated as anywhere else, it would be immediate self isolation