Parents not testing children

[BreadAlone]

I've been told by at least 2 different parents in my kids class now, that, despite their kid having a fever, they didn't get them tested and have sent them back into school as soon as the fever had gone (so a couple of days off school then back in).

These kids are primary, so no social distancing happening in school, and also both families have older kids in secondary, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the younger siblings have picked up covid from the older (seeing as there seems to be quite a lot of covid in secondary schools right now...).

I'm sending my kid in, trusting that other parents aren't being antisocial, selfish dicks about covid, but it seems they are. I don't want to pull my kid out, but equally I don't want to be exposed and thus potentially expose others more vulnerable than us if we get it through the stupidity of others who couldn't be arsed to get their kids tested.

No kids like the bloody tests. Yet I've managed to get 9 successfully done between my 2 kids when they've had symptoms this term, just to be sure I'm sending them into school with them not being a risk to others.

So 2 questions. 1) are there actually loads of people doing this, and I've been living in a dreamworld, believing parents were trying to protect schools? And 2) can I legitimately complain to the school about this, or will it be a case of no proof, so no consequence?

Sorry I can't believe I forgot to add another reason. DC who was most unwell has ASD and was absolutely traumatised by a previous test. I will always put the needs of my own DC first and as there was literally no point to testing, why would I put them through it?

From my perspective, I don’t have any interest in labelling parental behaviour selfish. However, since the requirement is that every time you have to send a child home with possible covid symptoms, you must isolate them in a separate room until collected (a bit tricky when there’s more than one at a time), then disinfect the classroom they’ve been sitting in, the room they were isolated in, the toilets they used, and clean other frequently touched surfaces, it’s really very disruptive of the school day.

Anyway, clearly the thread isn't about people in my situation

I suppose it highlights the need for government to get isolation payments to the people who genuinely need them and to penalise any employer who threatens someones job over it all. Easier said than done though.......

@WildWindBlows great, so send sick kids in to school to potentially spread covid to other kids parents who may then get sick so they can't work to put a roof over the heads of their own kids.

Doesn't matter if a class full of families get sick and can't work, as long as your selfish family are alright, hey?!

I haven’t heard any anecdotes of symptomatic kids being sent in but my dd has now had three tests (all negative) because of vague but testable symptoms. I couldn’t forgive myself for deciding off my own back it was just a cold and causing a massive outbreak! Now the GP is involved and investigating in circumstances I wouldn’t usually bother involving them with to try and stem any further need for testing because it is most likely the usual school lurgies.

DP has been pissy and unhelpful all three times but as I keep saying to him, this is hopefully just this year and it’s just how it is. No she probably doesn’t have covid but it’s unfair on the staff and other children to ask them to put their faith in our personal diagnosis, the least we can do is reassure them it’s not. I suppose it’s slightly easier given our areas testing times seem quite quick.

I’m sure that most parents would keep their dc isolated if they had chicken pox, this is exactly the same it’s just harder because of the restrictions we’ve all already endured. It’s hypocritical to recognised the value of one and not the other.

This is all very interesting. I live in a European country where people, on the whole, are taking the rules and regulations very seriously. The school has an isolation area and calls parents of children with any symptoms to collect them asap.

My friend's child had a temp one evening, and when she called the government health line, she was told to keep him off school until well but not to assume Covid-19 unless he has x3 symptoms for x3 days.

That said, most people are doing tests pretty immediately as you can go to a clinic or drive-thru centre with a prescription or have a nurse come to your house/ go to a private clinic and not pay too much.

My husband has to travel to the UK for work for 24hrs and it's easier for him to do a test here, fly to the UK then get the ferry to Spain with the appropriate PCR result documents than it is to get a test in the UK.

The school situation is very hard for people who are vulnerable, though.

I suppose it highlights the need for government to get isolation payments to the people who genuinely need them and to penalise any employer who threatens someones job over it all. Easier said than done though

I’ve been banging this drum for months, blinkered employers are the weak point for isolations at the moment and for every employer who has a sense of responsibility there are at least three that aren’t.

I would propose fining employers and a well publicised reporting system for those who are under pressure to choose between following public health advice or retaining their employment. I think the standard fine should be three times the monthly wage of the member of staff who should be isolating to make it more appealing to pay a percentage of their wage whilst isolating as the cheaper option.

The opposite here. We're in a high risk area and many parents who test positive are then testing their children many of who are also positive but asymptotic. Without them getting tested the bubbles are allowed to continue with potentially direct contact to covid cases, and with children being more likely to be asymptotic it seems like a sensible approach as the virus numbers are still spreading.

Our numbers continue to go up despite lockdown and I'm sure when we go into tier 3 and get tested like Liverpool did then many in the community will be found to be unknowingly positive. There are not obvious breaches in lockdown and many people are being very respectful of the rules.

I also think that as we were in a high numbers area in march there will be people carrying it but with no or less systems due to the first wave immunity. These people won't feel as poorly and just think it's basic tiredness and winter bugs. Another thing I've noticed (I'm no scientist) is the virus this time is presenting differently than the first wave. Many who have had it are reporting headaches, dizzy and feeling a bit unwell or off colour. They aren't going for tests because they don't have the symptoms to test.

I hit my head off my desk regularly just now as a GP. fed up of getting calls from parents saying " little Johnny has a temperature and a cough .....' I know it's not COVID' ....." How on earth do you know it's not? ...Get him tested!!! " But I know it's not COVID'? ....It might not be but it could be as you have 2 of the main symptoms so GET HIM TESTED!!!" I try to explain that the more we test the more we can isolate and keep people safe until we start vaccinating and I want to be out this mess as fast as anyone!

I’m amazed at how many know, without a test, it’s not covid

Schools need to be hot on and not allow ill children in school and if a child discloses they have been breaking the rules outside of school then follow it up.

@Musicaltheatremum - I’ve screenshotted your reply to show DP if it comes up again.

Everything seems to be going straight to dd’s chest at the moment (she’s never been particularly prone before that I’ve noticed) but if she has a new or changed cough she needs testing imho.

I’ve sought support from the GP now in case there’s an underlying infection she’s just not shifting or we need to rule out asthma but the last time we tested (third time since school started) we had a proper row over it and he just wouldn’t accept that the GP wouldn’t help without a recent covid test.

I feel like I’m not living on the same planet as some people these days.

@Musicaltheatremum

I hit my head off my desk regularly just now as a GP. fed up of getting calls from parents saying " little Johnny has a temperature and a cough .....' I know it's not COVID' ....." How on earth do you know it's not? ...Get him tested!!! " But I know it's not COVID'? ....It might not be but it could be as you have 2 of the main symptoms so GET HIM TESTED!!!" I try to explain that the more we test the more we can isolate and keep people safe until we start vaccinating and I want to be out this mess as fast as anyone!

I do understand your frustration. However my dd had covid back in March, and came down with a really horrific cough and a high temperature. So I got her a test, spoke to the gp who refused to see her. Her test results were delayed, so she wasn't seen for almost a week. She had a very nasty chest infection, and had the doctors had seen her she would have been much better much quicker. Child are notorious for getting coughs and high temperatures, especially at this time of year. They're suffering will illnesses at home that aren't covid because covid has stopped business running as usual. New systems should really be put in place to make things easier for everybody.

@WildWindBlows

Yes, how selfish people are for wanting to ensure their own children are fed and housed. Never fails to amaze me how the privileged on here just cannot comprehend that this would be the consequence of having to self isolate for many.

It is unfortunate that families may be adversely affected. However, having to take time off work is part and parcel of a parent's responsibility of having a child. And ultimately, being off work and waiting a couple of days for a negative result is no different to the child having a sickness bug, chicken pox etc. Yes it may pose financial problems, but the risk of the fine is surely worse for those families you speak of?

@peboh there is no definitive consensus on whether anyone can catch covid more than once. Your daughter must have been very ill to have tested positive in March so I do hope she’s better now.

I’m also not convinced your daughter would have been seen/treated earlier if there was no need for testing. My GP (and previous GP’s) don’t treat chest infections particularly quickly in normal circumstances because they’re most likely viral and obviously there’s not much that can be done other than wait for the body to deal with it. There’s little value in rushing to dole out treatments in the initial stage of any virus unless there are complications. At that point you’re probably looking at hospital treatment rather than the GP tbh.

[quote Cornettoninja]@peboh there is no definitive consensus on whether anyone can catch covid more than once. Your daughter must have been very ill to have tested positive in March so I do hope she’s better now.

I’m also not convinced your daughter would have been seen/treated earlier if there was no need for testing. My GP (and previous GP’s) don’t treat chest infections particularly quickly in normal circumstances because they’re most likely viral and obviously there’s not much that can be done other than wait for the body to deal with it. There’s little value in rushing to dole out treatments in the initial stage of any virus unless there are complications. At that point you’re probably looking at hospital treatment rather than the GP tbh.[/quote]
Yeah, she only got tested because she had to be admitted to the hospital due to a temperature of 41 that wasn't budging with any kind of medicine. Thankfully she's all better now, but it wasn't pleasant. The only reason I believed it wasn't covid, was because of her symptoms and her behaviour.
I do agree it's a very difficult situation for doctors and everyone really. I just think there needs to be open conversations as to what can be done to make things easier for everyone really.

@WildWindBlows

Yes, how selfish people are for wanting to ensure their own children are fed and housed. Never fails to amaze me how the privileged on here just cannot comprehend that this would be the consequence of having to self isolate for many.

Pert of being a parent is to look after sick children and not let them spread anything to others where possible, no different to measles etc.

School places and large fines or heavier sanctions should be in place for failure to self isolate or sending in children with symptoms and no test.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss see whilst I agree with you, unfortunately this isn't how it's been until now.

Parents, and indeed children, have usually been told they MUST be in school, or attendance will suffer. Children won't get 100% attendance awards if they're not in. And this is a big deal.

And now... suddenly...... Parents are being told that now they have to keep children off for goodness knows how many symptoms. And they could be fined if they DID go in.

Yes, loads of people on MN are very clear on the rules but MN isn't an accurate snapshot of society most of the time. And in my experience as a teacher for many many years is suddenly a total reversal of the usual message of come into school no matter what.

I've also been upset since the start of all this, that until now, when it's been attendance as the number 1 priority, I've been teaching children who have thrown up / have had the runs mere hours before... And I'm CEV to covid yes but this doesn't bother me. Taking risks in school has been going on for years for me since I have bowel disease and me catching anything like that lands me in hospital. It's just funny how now it can affect anyone it's a massive deal, but until now ... People have been made to feel like they're doing wrong if they keep they're children home. Meanwhile I've been in hospital countless times because they've sent them in....

[quote OpheliasCrayon]@IceCreamAndCandyfloss see whilst I agree with you, unfortunately this isn't how it's been until now.

Parents, and indeed children, have usually been told they MUST be in school, or attendance will suffer. Children won't get 100% attendance awards if they're not in. And this is a big deal.

And now... suddenly...... Parents are being told that now they have to keep children off for goodness knows how many symptoms. And they could be fined if they DID go in.

Yes, loads of people on MN are very clear on the rules but MN isn't an accurate snapshot of society most of the time. And in my experience as a teacher for many many years is suddenly a total reversal of the usual message of come into school no matter what.

I've also been upset since the start of all this, that until now, when it's been attendance as the number 1 priority, I've been teaching children who have thrown up / have had the runs mere hours before... And I'm CEV to covid yes but this doesn't bother me. Taking risks in school has been going on for years for me since I have bowel disease and me catching anything like that lands me in hospital. It's just funny how now it can affect anyone it's a massive deal, but until now ... People have been made to feel like they're doing wrong if they keep they're children home. Meanwhile I've been in hospital countless times because they've sent them in....[/quote]
That’s not actually true, though, @OpheliasCrayon - schools have always (apart from yours, apparently!) been very strict on the 48 hours since last time of vomiting or diarrhoea before returning to school rule. This is because, pre-covid, d&v bugs were the most common cause of classes being sent home so that classrooms can be deep cleaned. The attitude to attendance therefore remains unchanged: don’t risk causing an entire class or even school to have to isolate, but if you dare isolate siblings of children asked to isolate, or keep children off because of a vulnerable family member, this will be an unauthorised absence, however worried you are, or however difficult it is to find a way to get them to school when one of your children is not allowed out.

And I’m not aware of there being a system for fining people who send their children into school pretending they didn’t realise they had covid symptoms.

@Walkaround I wish it was true but I've worked in many schools for many years and the number of times I've had a kid happen to mention they were sick yesterday but they were told not to say anything .... I'm afraid it's quite common!

@Walkaround

And I’m not aware of there being a system for fining people who send their children into school pretending they didn’t realise they had covid symptoms.

No - I mean in general you can get fined for breaking covid rules (although obviously most people don't in reality) but I've always been at risk every day I've been to work and have usually been hospitalized once a year over the last 15, because of catching something off a child.

@OpheliasCrayon - yes, but that’s parents lying, not school staff telling them not to say they were sick yesterday, so exactly the same as parental covid lies! Of course many parents lie about d&v!

how can you be sure they haven't had a negative test though? A fever and cough can be fairly common in little ones for all different types of things

I’m not sure. Read the post I was responding to.

I teach at secondary. Many of my little ones are 6ft tall.