Parents not testing children

[BreadAlone]

I've been told by at least 2 different parents in my kids class now, that, despite their kid having a fever, they didn't get them tested and have sent them back into school as soon as the fever had gone (so a couple of days off school then back in).

These kids are primary, so no social distancing happening in school, and also both families have older kids in secondary, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the younger siblings have picked up covid from the older (seeing as there seems to be quite a lot of covid in secondary schools right now...).

I'm sending my kid in, trusting that other parents aren't being antisocial, selfish dicks about covid, but it seems they are. I don't want to pull my kid out, but equally I don't want to be exposed and thus potentially expose others more vulnerable than us if we get it through the stupidity of others who couldn't be arsed to get their kids tested.

No kids like the bloody tests. Yet I've managed to get 9 successfully done between my 2 kids when they've had symptoms this term, just to be sure I'm sending them into school with them not being a risk to others.

So 2 questions. 1) are there actually loads of people doing this, and I've been living in a dreamworld, believing parents were trying to protect schools? And 2) can I legitimately complain to the school about this, or will it be a case of no proof, so no consequence?

Belgium no longer tests anyone showing no symptoms, Portugal has scrapped PCR tests and UK epidemiologists (not the only 2 on telly!!) have been asking SAGE over and over again, what cycle they use - SAGE refuses to answer, funny that.
Look, PCR tests are ineffective, simple.
The PCR test “is unable to determine, beyond reasonable doubt, that such positivity result corresponds, in fact, to the infection of a person by the SARS-CoV-2 virus”, said the Lisbon Court of Appeal.

So, if you don't want to have a 3m rod shoved up your little child's head, then that's fine - who's the parent here, you? the school? the state?

@RayOfSunshine2013 totally! It's like coughs, colds and flus have all disappeared - in fact, ONS reports that they have - but they know it's because they're being given a bloody ineffective test, which is NOT DESIGNED TO DIAGNOSE COVID and therefore going into data as Covid !! How many ppl here haven't read or researched how PCR tests and LFT work? how they're created in the lab, how many cycles they have? Good grief!! I can't be the only one here who doesn't watch TV and listens to only 2 scientists, whilst others, such as Heneghan, Gupta and Yeadon (but to name a few) are being censored on SM - it's a disgrace! Read, read, read and stop taking SAGE who got EVERYTHING WRONG (models, BSE, Swine Flu, foot and mouth and Bird flu MASSIVELY WRONG) - sorry to get upset, but emotions run high and I can't stand ignorance.

@Glitterynails I’m a severely asthmatic pregnant paramedic (private sector) - lots of people are vulnerable but we can’t all stop life for it when there’s money to be earned. I’m still yet to see more than two “poorly usually healthy COVID patients” since March.

I was lambasted on here for getting my family tested after one of my teens was sent home to isolate after being in contact with a positive case. He had no symptoms at that time but is CEV so I wanted to check.

Turned out my primary school DC was also positive so his whole year had to isolate. He had absolutely no symptoms apart from his sense of smell going a week after he was tested.

In fact none of my 4 DC had the 3 required testing symptoms, no fever, no cough, at the fine of testing. The 2 who lost their sense of smell/taste only got that about a week after testing. If I had just isolated my college teen, I’d not have found out he was infected until then and my other teen and primary DC would have continued going into school and spread it around everywhere. As it is none of their classmates have notified the schools that they have had a positive test since they’ve been isolated so hopefully it looks like we nipped it in the bud in time although they all still should have been entitled to testing to check as those isolating DC could still be positive. but not showing symptoms like mine didn’t, so unknowingly passing it within their households and further.

The 3 symptoms required for a test are often not showing in children from what I’ve read.

@SmileEachDay

I’m shocked that schools are letting pupils back in if they had a temperature at school

How do you expect us to check? As soon as we spot symptoms-usually mid class - we send them home.

I understand they can’t do much if the child was symptomatic at home but if school have clear evidence of a child displaying symptoms, I’d have expected that they didn’t admit the child back until they had a negative test

We are not allowed to ask for evidence.

or had self isolated for 10 days

If parents say “they had a negative test” we can’t make them stay away.

Please stop blaming schools. We’re doing our best. That is on parents.

@SmileEachDay I wasn’t blaming schools, just couldn’t get my head around how it worked!

If a school is sending a child home because they have a temperature, then they have obviously ascertained they have a temperature! That was what I meant by having clear evidence of symptoms.

I know you’re not allowed to ask for proof of a negative test - we’re not either and have to rely on parents being honest - but I’d assumed that they wouldn’t be able to return the next day as the test results wouldn’t be able to have been sent back that quickly. Reading my post back, it does sound like I meant evidence was needed but I actually just meant that I’d assumed it wouldn’t be feasible to get the results back by the next day so they’d have to at least be off that day! It was pretty unclear though so apologies if it came across as blaming the schools, it was just bewilderment.

@SaveloyDip I was seeing things from an early years lens and hadn’t considered the challenges of secondary school children.

I’m really confused how all these kids are allowed back in with symptoms?!?! Our school require proof ie screenshot of negative test?!

Sleepymummy you aren't physically in school right now though, are you?! You shouldn't be. I work in a very safe school currently (small, rural, no cases) and our 2 ecv staff were sent home on the day lockdown 2 started. They teach live but remotely. And that's not even through choice, both hate it, offered to sign waivers and tried to get hospitals/doctors to rewire their letters because they don't see themselves as ecv. But our bursary said she had no choice, she had to send them home. Are all schools not following this? Doesn't do you much good now if they aren't, I suppose, as it ends next week. But you should have been protected.

Ha, no all schools are not following that. Most CEV teachers are working. Pregnant women in their third trimester are working.

@Ibizababyy

I’m really confused how all these kids are allowed back in with symptoms?!?! Our school require proof ie screenshot of negative test?!

Schools can not legally ask for proof of negative test. They can ask but that is all.

I am a teacher. In October I saw lots of children off with the X code. Now the only time I see X is when we are closed to year groups. Do have lots of ‘tummy aches’, ‘ear ache’, ‘sore throat’ as parents have cottoned on these aren’t counted as the top 3 symptoms so no need to isolate once temp has gone.

@Ibizababyy - the school can ask but parents are not obliged to provide one (not sure if this is just our LEA though)

It’s from the government guidance

www.gov.uk/government/publications/actions-for-schools-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak/guidance-for-full-opening-schools

*@coconuttyhead"

My DS had a temp of 38.5 and went down to 37.4 the next day. Ordered a test straight away and when i rung the school, the receptionist said “oh well if he’s feeling better tomorrow he can come in”.
I hope you complained to the school about the receptionist giving out incorrect advice.

Schools can not legally ask for proof of negative test. They can ask but that is all.

Exactly. A parent / carer can says the child is negative and send the child back to school. We can't ask them to prove the negative result, and they may not have even been for a test.

If we know why a child is off and they are sent back without a test result we send them home again. Usually the child will tell us why they are off or if they are unwell even if the parent fibs or doesn't mention it. We check temperature in school at the mere hint of a sniffle of flushed cheek

I used to occasionally keep my son off if he was tired or had a bad night sleep so didn’t want to go in as I want school to be a safe happy place for him and not somewhere he has to go even when not feeling great. But now I don’t do that as I worry they’ll think I only kept him home for a day because he had a temp and I said he was tired!!

It's happening a lot In my school. Child isolates rather than being tested so we don't know if it was a positive or not. But I'm in an SEN school and so it would be absolutely not possible to test the children. I totally sympathise with the parents in these situations and just accept that we likely will never know if a child has covid.

I hadn't realised that my daughters school didn't ask for the proof until I phoned to let them know she'd had a negative test. I was quite surprised at that myself, I was also expecting them to phone me to come and get her for a week after she went back because although her test is negative she has a really nasty cough. We get alot of filthy looks when we are out because of her cough.

I don't know why people are so surprised. The guidance is designed with a large amount of non-compliance expected, for a whole variety of reasons that you may not appreciate or care about. Its obvious that the small risk of their child passing covid on to other children is not going to be everyone's highest priority, isn't it? I'm in a position to comply (ie will still get paid) and would still interpret the rules around coughing fairly loosely, since positivity rates among primary age children are so low.

@Tfoot75 - quite a lot of the low positivity rate, imvho, is inadequate sample taking from children, given the number of children who got mild symptoms before their parents got symptoms, tested negative, but parents’ results came back positive (and now a slew of positive cases within the school community, possibly because the viral load has increased now there are so many covid positive children in school, so easier to detect, or just more parents taking it seriously and actually getting tests done rather than pretending). Once a few children have successfully infected their teacher, or worse, supply teacher, or the support staff member from another bubble covering lunch and breaks for another person who is off sick, then it can merrily spread between schools or school bubbles via infectious adults, who definitely spread the disease efficiently. Schools, particularly primary schools, are only keeping going by spending huge amounts of money on bringing in supply teachers who have been in several schools in the area to cover for people having to isolate/off with covid 19.

Yes, how selfish people are for wanting to ensure their own children are fed and housed.
Never fails to amaze me how the privileged on here just cannot comprehend that this would be the consequence of having to self isolate for many.

Hmm, not the case in my kids primary school (high incidence area), none of the teachers have tested positive, no use of supply staff that I have seen and no greater teacher absence than normal. 5 cases identified in primary of 550 pupils across the first term, no evidence of transmission within a bubble.

There has also not been a problem in high schools locally beyond self isolation of bubbles, one high school hasn't had a single case. The County is currently one of the highest incidence in the country (c 450 cases per 100,000) and the council are recommending testing for almost any symptom along with lateral flow asymptomatic testing now available.

Were on the 7th day of isolation due to postive test in 4 years olds class. Shes woke up this morning complaining of sore throat. I dont know whether to get her tested or not. I dont think the testing rules are open enough. She hasnt got ang of the main symptoms or not
I don't officially have to isolate but shes 4 so have to anyway but her dad was going to come over so i could go shopping tomorrow now i dont know.

Well that doesn't take away from the fact that there are vulnerable children, teacher's and families being exposed because you had to do the opposite to what is required.

@Tfoot75 - Hmm. well, it is the case in our area. I should know, as I work in an affected school. You only have to look at the way case rates can go up so dramatically in an area (eg look at Kent, or read up about Israel’s experience with schools) to know that you only need one super spreader, or a hardcore group of people ignoring the lockdown requirements, for local cases to suddenly start spiralling.

@ShirtyShirly

I was lambasted on here for getting my family tested after one of my teens was sent home to isolate after being in contact with a positive case. He had no symptoms at that time but is CEV so I wanted to check.

Turned out my primary school DC was also positive so his whole year had to isolate. He had absolutely no symptoms apart from his sense of smell going a week after he was tested.

In fact none of my 4 DC had the 3 required testing symptoms, no fever, no cough, at the fine of testing. The 2 who lost their sense of smell/taste only got that about a week after testing. If I had just isolated my college teen, I’d not have found out he was infected until then and my other teen and primary DC would have continued going into school and spread it around everywhere. As it is none of their classmates have notified the schools that they have had a positive test since they’ve been isolated so hopefully it looks like we nipped it in the bud in time although they all still should have been entitled to testing to check as those isolating DC could still be positive. but not showing symptoms like mine didn’t, so unknowingly passing it within their households and further.

The 3 symptoms required for a test are often not showing in children from what I’ve read.

I think some posters just are on edge and so anxious that they 'lambast' people no matter what they do. I had the opposite experience, I was flamed so badly, I hid the thread - I have been here for 10 years and have never hidden a thread before, so you can gather how bad it was!

So my situation was that I tested positive. It was perfect timing as these things go as DH and the DC had been off for 2 weeks (schools closed for 2 weeks at half term in my area), one trip out shopping just 10 days before my symptoms.

The DC developed vague symptoms, sore throats and a bit nauseous. I did assume cv but didn't test them as 1) I would have to lie to access tests and as an HCP I won't do that when there is no benefit 2) It had no implication for school as they had been off anyway and I isolated them for longer than I had to after my test as I didn't feel comfortable sending them back until I was able to end my own isolation, so normal temp etc 3) What difference does it make? I don't want them relaxing and thinking 'sure I don't need to worry, I already had it' when in school, and it won't affect them having to isolate again in the future.

I had so much abuse hurled, including it is selfish to not have their stats included in school data. Which I did find a bit funny given they weren't even in school.

So I wouldn't do what you did, you wouldn't do what I did. But so what? We definitely didn't spread it to anyone, is that not what testing is about?