why Brexit now???

[Figmentofmyimagination]

As the chancellor has said today, we are in huge trouble thanks to this pandemic - worst downturn in 300 years. Surely now is the time to revisit Brexit, especially as there is no longer any requirement to honour manifesto commitments?

Brexit is to cost 4% of national income each year long term, even with a deal, or at least 6% without a deal.

Can we not at least agree to stay in the single market?

Why are we still doing this?

Will our children forgive us?

But we could still opt to stay in the single market - that would be the sane choice.
that boat sailed two years ago
the UK will never get a deal as good as the one it had

I agree with this completely. It's such a obvious compromise.

The Brexit lobby don't do compromise though. And the other side didn't help. You had remain Mps voting against a customs union before the inevitable last election because they just wouldn't accept any kind of Brexit.

The problem is, we've got the best deal already. We get to have our cake and eat it within the EU with our own currency, a veto etc, as well as the benefits. Whatever deal we strike with the EU will be worse than the one we already have, so you can see why No Deal is appealing to some.

So by 'levelling up' the north, they actually mean 'levelling down' the south.
Arguably no-one is going to benefit from that. Destructive and idiotic in all respects.
Too late now, but the government still have the option to do a sensible deal with the EU if they are so inclined.

"Whatever deal we strike with the EU will be worse than the one we already have, so you can see why No Deal is appealing to some"

Definitely true in terms of our former privilege position in the EU (which no-one explained to the GBP), not sure anyone but a moron could view No Deal as appealing.

@Itwillendintiers

So by 'levelling up' the north, they actually mean 'levelling down' the south. Arguably no-one is going to benefit from that. Destructive and idiotic in all respects. Too late now, but the government still have the option to do a sensible deal with the EU if they are so inclined.

Leveling up was always a myth anyway because we're all going to be worse off in terms of the bottom line. Covid just compounds it.

Whole sorry affair highlights the need for general civic education in the UK to cover basics on the voting system, politics, economics, etc.
Other countries have this. Not complicated stuff, just a basic understanding covered by a lesson a week under the curriculum under the end of year 10 (age 14).
Then at least people might have had a basic clue what the hell they were voting for. Most had no idea what the EU, what it was for, how the direct costs of membership are vastly outweighed by indirect benefits of free trade etc.
Totally irresponsible to put that to a referendum.

So by 'levelling up' the north, they actually mean 'levelling down' the south.

Exactly. The dismantling of the UKs primary business will be catastrophic.

Most of us will know that the majority of city workers don’t earn that kind of money, and while salaries in the city overall are probably higher than the national average, city workers generally work long hours too. The rest of the country (thanks mainly to the media) seem to hate the city, but don’t realise what a huge contribution to the economy it makes. I’m sure I read some time ago that the city contributes almost 25% of the total tax income for the government. The financing it provides to businesses is vital in keeping people in work all over the country.

The levelling up will just see less investment across the country as the money just won't be there.

@Itwillendintiers

"Whatever deal we strike with the EU will be worse than the one we already have, so you can see why No Deal is appealing to some"

Definitely true in terms of our former privilege position in the EU (which no-one explained to the GBP), not sure anyone but a moron could view No Deal as appealing.

No Deal is psychological within the Brexit mindset.

If we negotiate a deal, any deal, it'll be worse than the one we had. Everyone knows that in reality. Therefore if we negotiate a deal then what has the 4 year national nightmare all been for? Billions and billions spent, a civil war of sorts, governments topped, two Prime Ministers seen off, the break up of the UK inevitable; and for what? A worse deal than the one we already had.

Therefore they want the victory, even if it's a pyrrhic one.

User God, I fear you are right

The only understanding GBP will have of that will be a big 'up yours delors' and they will think they have won.

People had the choice of voting for a party that was offering a referendum on leaving the EU.

They voted for one.

MPs had the choice of voting to have a referendum on leaving the EU.
They voted to have one.

People had the choice of voting to stay in the EU.

They voted to LEAVE

MPs had the choice of voting to leave the EU.
They voted to LEAVE

MPs had the choice of voting to stay in the Single Market &/or Customs Union.

Not once, not twice but three times MPs refused to vote to stay in the SM &/or the CU.

The people again had the choice of voting for a party that was offering to stay in the EU.

They voted to LEAVE.

HOW MANY TIMES!!! This is what democracy looks like???

Newstart you are right. It is cearly the majority choice. I do not want Brexit, but they do, clearly, so Brexit we have, there is no turning back at any time anymore.
Still feels fully unprepared, and a suicide attempt, like trying to walk on thin air, once our feet leave the cliff's edge.
I cannot do with the suspense anymore!

newstart
I totally agree that Brexit is the will of the people
and those who voted for it have to accept the outcome of their choices
when the true impact becomes clear
after the end of Transition
Happy New Year

There's no-one in charge - detail has gone to pot and Johnson and chums are worse than even I could have thought. God lies in the detail and there is no detail now just empty slogans and imagined unicorns from second and third rate politicians. They say they care about fisherman have a look at the long list of new regulations these fishermen will need to sell their catch in Europe. 30000 civil servants have been working their socks off on Brexit whilst the pandemic raged. Nothing short of criminal.

Short version - WE ARE FUCKED.

www.gov.uk/guidance/export-fish-to-the-eu-from-1-january-2021

@newstart1337

People had the choice of voting for a party that was offering a referendum on leaving the EU. They voted for one.

MPs had the choice of voting to have a referendum on leaving the EU.
They voted to have one.

People had the choice of voting to stay in the EU.

They voted to LEAVE

MPs had the choice of voting to leave the EU.
They voted to LEAVE

MPs had the choice of voting to stay in the Single Market &/or Customs Union.

Not once, not twice but three times MPs refused to vote to stay in the SM &/or the CU.

The people again had the choice of voting for a party that was offering to stay in the EU.

They voted to LEAVE.

HOW MANY TIMES!!! This is what democracy looks like???

I think Brexit is a crock of shit but accept it has to happen because people democratically voted for it. Whether in a referendum in 2016 or in an election last year by a landslide which was a a defacto second referendum.

The problem as I outlined above, is people knowing what they were voting against but not knowing what they were ultimately voting for beyond leaving the EU because it was never on the table.

The best deal we're going to get allied to the EU is the one we already have, therefore we have two options. Agree an inferior deal or leave without a deal.

newstart that doesn’t mean people can’t continue to point out loudly that this is an act of economic suicide.

newstart and that it was a stinking pile of manure and political manipulation irrespective of this pandemic but will now be an even worse outcome - for those least able to afford it. Disgraceful.

The key point is that with less than 40 days to go
the UK has not agreed trading terms with its largest and nearest partners
which will negatively affect supplies
of food
of medicines
of groceries
and THAT is an unforgivable betrayal by politicians of those who voted for them.

And the ads about how WE have to get ready are starting again. Everytime I hear them on the radio, rage overcomes me! We, obviously, must take responsibility and get ready for the changes ahead.
They, on the other hand, can wait till the last second before clarifying which those damn changes are!
But.... someone will have to do all that paperwork, so if anyone needs a job, there is a sector to look into, customs!
My work place does send chemicals to the EU. It already takes quite a bit of paperwork, and surely they are getting ready for Jan, with some extra!
Any of you has to get ready to send or recieve stock/ chemicals/ food? Are your companies investing in it? Or waiting to see what the hell finally happens?
Because my vibe is that they are fed up of the yes/no dance, and waiting, sitting, till the last day which can indeed cause delays.
Companies have to face a massive hit to acquire access to websites/ paperwork/ rules (for the EU chemicals regulations) in case of no deal, but which will be a waste in case of deal. I can imagine similar will happen to perishables and medicines.

I think Brexit is a crock of shit but accept it has to happen because people democratically voted for it.
I know I am a broken record but I have to point it out again. In a democratic vote you don't disenfranchise thousands of British citizens and then tell them their rights have been removed anyway. That is not democracy.

I wondered when a thread like this would start again.
There are two groups in this agreement, one with 27 views.
Can you not see it was always going to end like this?

Mummmy
But the group of 27 are clear on what they want
and have been since summer 2016

its the singleton that has still not decided what it wants

Oh you can't fish in our waters as per the law is pretty clear .

Or materialise any plans to deal with the consequences of what is happening, which really depends entirely on them, the goverment of the UK.
I have always thought this will go to no deal. I cannot see UK and EU agreeing on anything at all, precisely why UK is leaving the EU.
I can see us all eating more fish (I am happy to do so), and getting jobs in the shipping industry. I say it again, also I do not see other option other than produce locally, more manufacturing in the UK. Maybe we actually get back to good quality items that last forever! I do miss that. Fridges that would last 30 years! Holidaying locally. Spending locally.

@Figmentofmyimagination

newstart and that it was a stinking pile of manure and political manipulation irrespective of this pandemic but will now be an even worse outcome - for those least able to afford it. Disgraceful.

and that it was a stinking pile of manure and political manipulation You are sounding like Trump.

Doesn’t mean people can’t continue to point out loudly that this is an act of economic suicide.
Of course you can but that doesn't mean the rest of us can't roll our eyes and carry on as voted for.