Christmas mixing and Tiers

[meow1989]

I know we are all just guessing at the moment, but ..

I get that its likely we are allowed to mix 3 households total over the 5 days, but doesn't that become moot if your area is tier 1? Because in tier 1 you can mix up to 6 households technically (one from each). Do you think they will have the forethought to clarify this ir will it be more interpreting the rules as you go? (Fwiw I will follow whatever the guidance is, I'm not looking for loophole just curious as to how this would work)

It’s a closed bubble of 3 households full stop. So once you’ve picked the 2 households you are seeing they are the only ones you can see over Christmas.

So if my sister sees my parents and her husband’s parents, can I see my parents?

Argh!!!

Is there anyway I can make this work...

3 households...

A: DH and I
B: My Fil
C: My parents.

They can all stay at our house for the 5 day period.

However my parents (and I but I'm willing to forfeit this...) would like to see my (D) Brother, Sil and their child.
They live driving distance from me so my parents could drive to see them.

My Sil will obviously want to see her (E) parents at some point over the 5 day period.

Im currently thinking my parents either need to pick me or my brother, or see my brother for a walk in the cold?

Is that right?

I know this is massively breaking the rules but theoretically could I move my parents and Fil into our house and become a household? If so, how long do they have to live with you for them to become one house?

What a nightmare - it really is the gift that keeps on giving... wish they'd just said no one can meet up.

Currently my parents are seeing they'll see no-one as it's not fair to pick.
So it'll be me, DH and Fil - which not disrespect to Fil is going to be very miserable :(

It is quite a fundamental thing and tipping point - it will make people be law breakers and that is a slippery slope and will not the state much good longer term. It was a bad decision.

@Lumene Technically no, because they are already three households in a bubble.

Does anyone know if this Christmas mixing rule is a legally enforceable law or simply guidance?

Thanks.

@FedUpOfAllThis

Oh get a grip. We’ve all been in lockdown for a second time and it’s made no difference to the number of infections. I, like many have stuck to the rules 100% from day one but I will be seeing my family over Christmas.

The R rate has come down. Individual figures have come down. Our figures here have dropped dramatically during this lockdown.

I just can't believe how utterly foolish people are being, seeing their families. We'd all like to see our family but we don't want to infect them with Coronavirus, we don't want to overwhelm the NHS and we don't want people to have no income again in January because they can't work.

Do everyone a favour and celebrate when we have the vaccination.

@goodname

This is a terrible idea. It’s not only going to lead to more cases but whole families falling out! I have a huge family, sisters and brothers in laws, nieces and nephews, parents, grandparents, in laws etc. It’s impossible 🤯 and what about people that no one chooses! How sad would that be. Now people on their own will feel even worse

Yep, I'm glad someone realises this! I'm on my own, and despite having loads of friends, they're all married with kids so won't be picking me. I get that I'm in the minority and we can't please everyone, but none of the Christmas plans do me any good at all. And neither do the after Christmas tiers of not being able to have people in my house 😕

@Lumene

It’s a closed bubble of 3 households full stop. So once you’ve picked the 2 households you are seeing they are the only ones you can see over Christmas.

So if my sister sees my parents and her husband’s parents, can I see my parents?

No, they would already have three households so you would be the fourth and not allowed.

interesting detail according to the Guardian (sorry if already mentioned)

There will also be some national variations. For example, in England, house sharers will be able to disperse to different family homes as separate household bubbles. However, in Scotland they will count as the same household, and cannot.

This means that in England, in theory one parent or half of a couple can join a three-household visit with their side of the family, with the other heading elsewhere.

@Karcheer
Can your FIl as a single person not be included in your bubble as a support bubble for him then your family and him count as 1 bubble

@TheFrendo Apparently it’s going to be made law. But if the penalty is a couple of hundred quid fine, people won’t care.

@TheFrendo

Does anyone know if this Christmas mixing rule is a legally enforceable law or simply guidance?

Thanks.

Law I believe

OK so dilemma, I wonder if someone can work out whether this is allowed

I live in a household with my DD and her BF, they are visiting his family, which is his DF and DS (2 seperate Households on Boxing day)

On Christmas Day i am having lunch with my DD and her BF at the local pub (if its still open. booked and paid for before all this happened)

Then the plan was to see my DS and his fiance at his and my other DS and his GF were coming over to see us. The trouble is, that my eldest DS and his GF are visting her DM, DG and DB for lunch on Christmas Day. So basically the households are over 3 if all that is taken into consideration. In fact am I allowed to see my sons at all if I live with my DD and her BF and he has seen his DF and DS. I have told them I am happy to celebrate before Christmas if we are still in Tier 1 as 6 people can meet up under that rule. I cant get my head round it all. I have said I will be happy to wait until this is over but my eldest DS is upset that he wont see me if his GF visits her mum, brother and nan. (which is 4 households alone!)

@FedUpOfAllThis

Oh get a grip. We’ve all been in lockdown for a second time and it’s made no difference to the number of infections. I, like many have stuck to the rules 100% from day one but I will be seeing my family over Christmas.

PatriciaPerch, oh I know this is all really difficult, but your assholes typo really made me laugh!

I won’t be having the vaccination and neither will most of my family so why would I wait for that. And before our intelligence comes into question my family are all bright, accomplished well adjusted people, we have all stuck to the rules throughout but enough is enough now.

@2020hello he is already in a bubble with my bil and sil but they are going away for christmas so I dont think so :/

Oops, quote fail there!

The police are going to be quite busy on 25th policing all these households.

it is also extremely complicated and we don't have the legislation out yet - I just checked and yet people have to make plans, book rail journeys and time off work etc.

One more time... If you read the actual government advice here www.gov.uk/government/publications/making-a-christmas-bubble-with-friends-and-family/making-a-christmas-bubble-with-friends-and-family it very clearly says that you can continue to meet people outside the bubble as long as you follow the tier rules in the area.

My understanding is that the bubble is to allow household A to stay with/travel with/celebrate indoors with households B and C at any point during the 5 days.

In addition, if your tier allows, you could meet households D, E, F, G with social distancing, outside or in whatever hospitality is allowed, as long as you're following the rules of the tier.

So yes you need to choose who you want to be able to have inside your house and celebrate with, but it is NOT the case that you can ONLY see the bubble and nobody else for those full 5 days.

@Jenasaurus

OK so dilemma, I wonder if someone can work out whether this is allowed

I live in a household with my DD and her BF, they are visiting his family, which is his DF and DS (2 seperate Households on Boxing day)

On Christmas Day i am having lunch with my DD and her BF at the local pub (if its still open. booked and paid for before all this happened)

Then the plan was to see my DS and his fiance at his and my other DS and his GF were coming over to see us. The trouble is, that my eldest DS and his GF are visting her DM, DG and DB for lunch on Christmas Day. So basically the households are over 3 if all that is taken into consideration. In fact am I allowed to see my sons at all if I live with my DD and her BF and he has seen his DF and DS. I have told them I am happy to celebrate before Christmas if we are still in Tier 1 as 6 people can meet up under that rule. I cant get my head round it all. I have said I will be happy to wait until this is over but my eldest DS is upset that he wont see me if his GF visits her mum, brother and nan. (which is 4 households alone!)

The first bit is okay but seeing your sons after they’ve been seeing their partners’ families will put you waaaaay over three households.

@Jenasaurus

OK so dilemma, I wonder if someone can work out whether this is allowed

I live in a household with my DD and her BF, they are visiting his family, which is his DF and DS (2 seperate Households on Boxing day)

On Christmas Day i am having lunch with my DD and her BF at the local pub (if its still open. booked and paid for before all this happened)

Then the plan was to see my DS and his fiance at his and my other DS and his GF were coming over to see us. The trouble is, that my eldest DS and his GF are visting her DM, DG and DB for lunch on Christmas Day. So basically the households are over 3 if all that is taken into consideration. In fact am I allowed to see my sons at all if I live with my DD and her BF and he has seen his DF and DS. I have told them I am happy to celebrate before Christmas if we are still in Tier 1 as 6 people can meet up under that rule. I cant get my head round it all. I have said I will be happy to wait until this is over but my eldest DS is upset that he wont see me if his GF visits her mum, brother and nan. (which is 4 households alone!)

No it is 3 households maximum in a bubble. So as yours would be 4 it’s not allowed.

feellikeanalien

Will people from England be allowed into Scotland though? We're in the north of England and at the moment I'll get fined if I'm caught going into Scotland.
www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-three-household-bubbles-and-travel-restrictions-lifted-under-christmas-rules-govt-source-12141187

"Travel restrictions across the whole of the UK will also be lifted during the five-day period, allowing people to travel between nations or between tiers in order to meet those in their bubble."

We were musing whether they could maybe introduce some system like carbon trading where those who weren't using up their three households could pass that allowance on to desperate others.

We will be two households at most, one support bubble at least, so definitely won't be using our third household allowance.
I wonder if there's a way to offset it?!