The bit I don't get about mixing at Christmas is...

[waltzingparrot]

Surely mixing in the same five day period with elderly/vulnerable relatives means that those that catch it and need the ICU will all need it pretty much at the same time, which is likely to overwhelm the system isn't it?

At least currently those requirements have been spread over weeks.

Don't do it then. I'm certainly not going to be mixing with others

People have to make proper grown up decisions over this don't they? Just because you can mix doesn't mean in lots of circumstances you should. You still have a responsibility to keep vulnerable loved ones protected and safe.
Vulnerable people are still vulnerable, Christmas doesn't change that!

Yes, good point!

I also won't be mixing at Christmas. If it was actually safe to do so, we wouldn't need restrictions either side of it.

It’s a stupid idea and only going ahead because of all the people who will just do it anyway, legal or not. We will be having Christmas as our household, most of our family are doing likewise or only seeing one other low risk household. It’s just one day, in one year.

Yes that is exactly what it means.
But people are going to do it regardless.
So the government are using the meet up at Christmas as justification, if needed, for a further severe lockdown in January/February.

@dementedpixie

Don't do it then. I'm certainly not going to be mixing with others

I have absolutely no intention of mixing outside our household and luckily, I think many people do realise it's not right to do so.

I'm just surprised that so many can't wait to mix with their elderly relatives and haven't thought this particular element through. And it does affect us all ultimately, if we needed urgent treatment for any other reason.

Yes, the situation in hospitals is often pretty awful in January but I think next year it could be truly dire.

We also won't be mixing. I keep likening it to how it's legal to smoke, but that doesn't mean I have to take it up, given the negative impact I think it can have on the smoker and those passively influenced.

Just because it's "allowed" doesn't make it smart. You're quite right, OP.

I feel that people have to take some sort of personal responsibility here.

This is exactly the point I've been making.
One of my best friends has been hugely vocal about how much she's missing her 92yo grandmother as she hasn't given her a hug since March and is staying away - she says this is to keep her safe as friend is a key worker and could be carrying germs.

Yet on Facebook yesterday she said she was keeping her fingers crossed that the rules mean she can have her over for Christmas.

So it's alright to kill Nana Doreen because it's Christmas, when the poor woman has been isolated for months because nobody wants to harm her!

Sorry, I should have added - I won't be visiting anyone over Christmas. We're having it just me and DP this year!

@Sparklingbrook

I feel that people have to take some sort of personal responsibility here.

One glance at the threads on here shows that people aren't, though.

I agree, it seems illogical to me too. The thing is, I'd be ok with not seeing anyone outside my household for Christmas itself, but given it looks like I might be given five days where I'm allowed a cup of tea in comfort with my mum from 17 October, when my area went into tier 2, to an unspecified time where we go into tier 1, which I think could easily be well into February if not beyond, then it's going to be hard not to take that opportunity - surely lots of other people are the same?

We will probably be in Tier 3 so couldn’t do it
To be honest I wouldn’t anyway, my relatives are highly vulnerable and Covid would most likely be a death sentence for them.

No one is telling you have to mix, stay at home with your household.

I'm glad we are allowed to mix, it means that my household will get a proper Christmas dinner, my DS will be able to spend the day with his grandparents, cousins and auntie and uncle. I wish we could mix as 2/3 households every day and not just Christmas!

One glance at the threads on here shows that people aren't, though.

Totally agree. It's as if they think because the government say they can then they have to do something...

I know everyone will claim it's a mixed message but I honestly think it would be better if Boris stands up and says "Look people, it would be safer for society, safer your elderly relatives and better for the NHS if you don't mix at Christmas. Our advice is to stay at home. However, if you are determined to mix these are the rules....."

Agree, it’s completely nuts. We won’t be mixing for this reason
It’s not worth it.. vaccines are literally being manufactured as we speak

For us mixing at Christmas hold little if any extra risk. I work for a family company and spend every day with my parents, brother and occasionally my niece (she's part time). My in laws are vulnerable (health issues and dementia) so we have to see them to help provide care anyway.

So it just means we can eat a christmas meal together instead of spending all day together in an office/ in laws tiny home.

I think that message would have been better OP

The thing is - you have to understand that not everyone is in the same situation. Mixing at christmas may seem insane to those who are going out, mixing with lots of people every single day in the run up because of their jobs etc.

But there are also many of us who are working at home, with retired parents/grandparents who are just at home. The biggest risk is from the kids going to school; but with a clear week (or more) between school finishing and christmas day, any infection the kids will bring home is very likely going to be known about by christmas day.

I completely agree that everyone needs to be cautious, but not everyone is mixing hugely in the run up to christmas; so the risk is really not blanket across the board.

@waltzingparrot

I know everyone will claim it's a mixed message but I honestly think it would be better if Boris stands up and says "Look people, it would be safer for society, safer your elderly relatives and better for the NHS if you don't mix at Christmas. Our advice is to stay at home. However, if you are determined to mix these are the rules....."

That's pretty much what he did say isn't it? Or am I projecting too much common sense onto him?

It's certainly what the scientists said. & NS.

I can only imagine the tantrums if I told my 86 year old dad he couldn't come and stay for Christmas. He would threaten to harm himself and make my life a misery like he did during the first lockdown (I was pregnant and had something going on which meant I was vulnerable - he was more of a risk to me as we were isolating and he was carrying on as normal).

He's back to his usual monthly long weekend visits now (bubble, no other family). As far as he's concerned he doesn't care if he catches covid. He just doesn't want to be on his own. I've got children in secondary and primary and he doesn't care, he'll keep on taking the risk.

I think a lot of older people feel the same way.

I think it just makes a mockery of all the current rules and restrictions. Either it’s safe to mix inside with elderly relatives or it’s not.

I would not be happy if I was part of the population that missed out on other religious festivals this year either. With no notice.

Why do they need to give a months notice? Why so many households mixing? I’d rather see my mates than my in-laws though so that may be clouding my judgement. My own parents are too far away.

@TheMissingBeaker

We also won't be mixing. I keep likening it to how it's legal to smoke, but that doesn't mean I have to take it up, given the negative impact I think it can have on the smoker and those passively influenced.

Just because it's "allowed" doesn't make it smart. You're quite right, OP.

Fully agree. Like back in Summer, just because people "could" go abroad for a holiday didn't mean they had to. In Autumn, people "could" eat out to help out, but again, didn't have to. No one forced them to take risks with their own and others' health.

If too many people throw caution to the wind, the infection, hospitalisation and death rates will sky-rocket in January and we will be back to more severe lockdowns again. Simple cause and effect!