COVID-19: Those earning above £19.5k should pay more tax after pandemic to help fix UK finances, says think-tank

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Your thoughts on this?

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-those-earning-above-19-5k-should-pay-more-tax-to-help-fix-finances-12130088

How should the debt be clawed back? What would you do if you were government to raise the money?

The way some people act as if being on furlough is a choice and not something that was forced upon people due to the government ordering their workplaces to close is ridiculous.

IMO, the problem with furlough was that it was so generous with very little restrictions.

My ex employer has placed entire departments on furlough - they are outsourcing the entire department and have no need for these workers anymore. But rather than making them redundant right now, they are using tax payer money to keep these employees on furlough whilst knowing full well that there is no job there anymore. These sorts of employers should take a huge hit because that's just not right.

There's also the issue of the TUC who actively campaigned for employees to request furlough for childcare reasons to aid homeschooling even if they had the capacity to WFH. Now these people may have safe jobs to go back to - so they've just been paid 80% of wages by the government to make their lives easier. I admit I'm hugely jealous of this cohort because I'm self employed and excluded from any financial support, so I've had to reach breaking point to ensure my business remains active whilst also homeschooling a 5yo. I didn't have the luxury of being paid to take a break. I also know a few people who were at breaking point because they were working full time and had to cover the workloads of those people who asked for furlough due to childcare reasons.

These two scenarios are very different to the other proportion of furloughed workers who were literally forced to stop working and at great risk of losing their jobs.

I don’t agree it should be just furloughed people paying. Everyone has benefitted from industries being closed down and it was not the choice of the employees. You could turn it round and say that those who haven’t been financially affected during the pandemic should pay more and those that had their pay cut to 80% shouldn’t have to as they’ve already lost money.*

This. Everyone benefitted from furlough because it was the only way to stop people falling into absolute poverty (which let's face it, would've turned to anarchy if people were just banned from working with no way to feed/house themselves) whilst simultaneously lowering infection rates and 'protecting the NHS'. We protected the NHS but taking a massive hit to our incomes, that's a massive sacrifice in itself. 20% of someone's income is a huge chunk to lose. Sure people working throughout might be 'exhausted' but you'd only be more so if we'd kept working as well and infections has gone through the roof due to the nature of our industries. Then who would you have to blame for your exhaustion? Worldwide crisis's are hard, everyone's exhausted in different ways. Don't go getting all holier than thou because you think your work exhaustion is harder than the people plunged into poverty by the governments exhaustion. Believe it or not wondering how you're going to put food on the table and cover all the bills, whilst waiting for the gov to let you work again, because all these people clamouring for lockdown to be extended/harder, but then vilifying you for not being able to work in the lockdown they begged for, is exhausting too.

I'm all for higher taxes as long as we have a government that spends them wisely where they're needed. Not the current bunch who would just give the money to their mates....

I am genuinely gobsmacked (and hurt) by the vitriol towards furloughed staff.

You do know the vast majority had no choice?

Would you prefer we lived off thin air?

We don’t HAVE jobs to go to. I love my job. I hate being at home. I’m slowly losing my mind.

The level of spite towards us on this thread is gross.

Everyone benefitted from furlough because it was the only way to stop people falling into absolute poverty (which let's face it, would've turned to anarchy if people were just banned from working with no way to feed/house themselves) whilst simultaneously lowering infection rates and 'protecting the NHS'. We protected the NHS but taking a massive hit to our incomes, that's a massive sacrifice in itself.

Yes! I don't understand why more people don't get this. You think people whose jobs stopped due to industry closures would have stayed at home baking & gardening if they lost their homes?

*I am genuinely gobsmacked (and hurt) by the vitriol towards furloughed staff.

You do know the vast majority had no choice?

Would you prefer we lived off thin air?

We don’t HAVE jobs to go to. I love my job. I hate being at home. I’m slowly losing my mind.

The level of spite towards us on this thread is gross.*

This. My workplace has been forcibly closed. I'd much rather be at work. I love my job, I get to see my friends. I make far more money than you would think looking at my contract because I pick up lots of overtime (overtime that wasn't included in my furlough calculation so I'm getting less than 80% of my 'normal' income). I also make extra money in lots of high tiles because I'm very good at my job and take pride in it. I also get a staff meal and drink with every shift so that's 5-7 extra meals a week I've had to find money for which would normally be covered at work.

I don't want to be furloughed. I've hated every second of it, I can't wait to get back to work.

It's not been a holiday, it's financially decimated me. And yet I'm the one who should pay for being forced out of work to 'protect the NHS' which I barely use and even when I got covid I was fine with it and used no NHS resources? The very idea is a joke and I hope if it's ever even suggested by the government that people rightly rebel.

@Neighneigh

I suspect my four and ten year olds will still be paying tax towards it when they get to working age, frankly

They will. My taxes paid for WW2 until 2006. It ended eight years before I was born.

We all need to pay our share. It looks as if the personal tax allowance will be frozen for the foreseeable future which seems pretty fair.

I'm furloughed yes. However I'm on a part time minimum wage and I use a food bank so I dunno where I'm going to get the extra money for tax from. Employment opportunities are pretty bleak round here right now and I have to live here to assist elderly relatives and my kids go to school. Plus I don't have 6 months rent in advance to upsticks and find accommodation in an area with more jobs.

We all need to contribute as we have all benefitted directly or indirectly from the NHS and other services not completely collapsing. I think an increase in VAT on the things we buy (apart from essentials like food, children's clothes etc) would be the fairest way. I would support an increase in income tax, but there are too many loopholes which mean those who can afford to pay more don't because they hire clever accountants in order to avoid paying their fair share.

@lockeddownandcrazy
Those on furlough who have basically been on holiday for a year at 80% are the ones who need to stump up, not the people who have been working throughout.
My mums earns minimum wage and has been on furlough all year, she quietly suffered at first not telling us she was broke and ended up with an overdraft and credit card debt she can’t afford to pay back so that she could afford rent, heating and food. Me and my sister now give her £100 a month to help her make minimum payments and keep her head above water. She’s desperate to go back because that 20% is needed - she walks to work and doesn’t spend on any luxuries. Taxing her more will just keep her in this mess. She begged her boss to find something she could do rather than being furloughed.

@bookmarket

To answer the question - it should all be paid for by a one-off wealth tax.

How would a one off wealth tax work? What happens to those who have very little savings and so can’t pay their bill?

As I said, a one-off wealth tax sounds great, but what would that mean in practice? People selling assets that take multiple years to build up taxed heavily in the year they sell them as though it is salary, regardless of the fact they might have spent decades living on very little, building up the business? That would kill investment. Endowments meant to pay off mortgages asset stripped so they don't pay off those mortgages? That would tip people into homelessness. Pensions asset stripped so people end up on benefits later in life? That would create a welfare state problem down the line. Where are you going to draw the line?

I also know a few people who were at breaking point because they had to cover the workloads of those people who asked for furlough due to childcare reasons.

And do those people realise that the extra work would have landed in their lap anyway because it simply isn't possible to be as productive as normal whilst simultaneously homeschooling multiple primary aged children.

They should tax businesses like Amazon, Netflix etc more... also claw back on tax through people who are on 60k plus. Also tax contractors who have limited companies, these people probably remove money tax efficiently and put lots of expenses through the company so this needs looking at. Other areas that need taxing are where people own shares that have grown considerably so basically your investors!

It's very easy to point to other people and say "They look like they have got enough money to pay more tax" but it's complicated. To give just one example, a lot of women with younger kids earning over £60k may well be be forking out 2/3 or 3/4 of their take-home pay on childcare, and by the time their commuting costs to somewhere like London, where these jobs tend to be, have been taken into account, they might actually only take home something like £10k, which is appalling when you think about it. That's why a couple of pence on everyone's income tax apart from those really at the bottom end is going to be more realistic. I do think an online shopping tax might be interesting though, for companies above a certain size (so as not to hammer small traders on Etsy, etc).

@BoffinMum

It's very easy to point to other people and say "They look like they have got enough money to pay more tax" but it's complicated. To give just one example, a lot of women with younger kids earning over £60k may well be be forking out 2/3 or 3/4 of their take-home pay on childcare, and by the time their commuting costs to somewhere like London, where these jobs tend to be, have been taken into account, they might actually only take home something like £10k, which is appalling when you think about it. That's why a couple of pence on everyone's income tax apart from those really at the bottom end is going to be more realistic. I do think an online shopping tax might be interesting though, for companies above a certain size (so as not to hammer small traders on Etsy, etc).

How many people are still commuting though? The people I know who physically have to go out to work are people in manual jobs on low wages, supermarket staff, care assistants and the like. No one on £60k. A lot of people will be permanently working from home now.

You are talking about a lot of doctors, solicitors, barristers, lecturers, some teachers, that kind of job category in the kind of salary bracket for women. And that can't be done from home exclusively.

Most people want someone else to pay for all this and for all the public services their household uses to remain running, without of course paying any extra themselves.

'I worked throughout so shouldn't have to pay for furlough' is 2021's version of the classic 'I have private health insurance so should pay less in income tax'

£19.5k seems on the low side. Investment for growth is important right now, and a little extra (but not overbearing) only for businesses and individuals that can afford it. As a self-employed heavy internet delivery user who's worked throughout, I'm well aware that I'm a prime target for some extra tax, and that's fine.

@BoffinMum

You are talking about a lot of doctors, solicitors, barristers, lecturers, some teachers, that kind of job category in the kind of salary bracket for women. And that can't be done from home exclusively.

This! So frustrating that so many people choose to ignore this fact.

Amazon.

I agree (and I'd be paying more with this too).

It's a debt and it has to be repaid. It's a society debt, so all of society should make a contribution. What I find so depressing is the number of people who think that 'someone else should pay'. Who exactly?

The problem is that furlough was a blunt instrument, rushed in and some people fell through the cracks. As someone mentioned below, some people got furlough for childcare - often leaving their colleagues to pick up the slack with extra work to do. @Waxonwaxoff0 can't you see how it feels unfair to those people to have to pay for your paid time off when they struggled because they had perhaps lost a job before the lockdown or had to work extra hours to cover for their furloughed colleagues?