The government is encouraging covid spread in schools

[noblegiraffe]

Bear with me, because if they're not, you have to explain this:

1. Schools will stay fully open end of. Even when they're not.

1. No masks allowed in classrooms where teachers and pupils spend the most time. The expectation that they would be mandated in corridors is fudged at the last minute to lockdown areas only.

1. Pupils are not allowed to be tested for the symptoms that kids are most likely to get.

1. Teachers (who in secondary will teach all bubbles without masks) are not to self isolate if there is a case in a class they have taught.

1. Fudge any data that may show teachers getting ill at a higher rate than the general population and Chris Whitty lying about it

1. Fudge data that may show school pupils having a higher infection rate than the general population

1. Not permitting / trying / mass testing in schools where there have been cases in case they find out how bad the spread is.

1. Actually sending letter to parents to tell them to stop getting kids tested.

9 Fine parents who try and keep their kids off when in contact with a known positive case.

10. Launch a propaganda campaign to convince parents that schools are safe using data from schools in lockdown, which every news outlet dutifully publicises. Continuing that propaganda campaign by releasing a video of socially distanced school kids wearing masks in classrooms.

11. Hide Gavin Williamson in a cupboard so that no journalist can accidentally ask him how his aim to reopen schools safely is going.

12. Announce that one of the school safety measures will be children in bubbles which will burst when there are cases. Stop this midway through September and start sending home as few kids as possible. Remove the schools remit from PHE control and put DfE in charge to enforce this.

13. Produce a Tiered system of responses to infection levels (rotas, masks, closures) to reassure parents, and shut the unions up. Then never mention them again and in fact state that they are not to be used.

14. When Hull begs for rotas due to imminent collapse of system, send a letter to all local authorities re-iterating NO ROTAS

15. Have some strange control over the media so they don’t mention any issues, or if they do, it must be accompanied by a picture of a jumbo classroom containing max 5 kids.

16. Tell teachers to ignore the app when it tells them to isolate, or to turn off the app completely

17. No funding for schools to implement any covid safety measures

Any other explanations for this list?

Would it be okay if teachers were not paid if schools closed
Teachers would still be teaching. My teacher DD is currently doing almost double normal planning because half the class is at home and half at home.

Her SLT have made it clear that any teacher who tests positive will be held responsible for not adhering ro covid "safety" . The only "safety" provision is standing a theoretical 2 meters from the front row and masks in corridors. The DC do not adhere to mask wearing, it's the 2020 equivalent of uniform defiance.

Me. However, I don't think that closing schools means no education

I said ‘word for word’ because you hadn’t written ‘closed’ full stop but followed on with ‘a short period of time’. There is a subtle but important difference
I understand what you mean!

@noblegiraffe

So we can agree that the government are encouraging covid spread in schools.

Whether they actually intend to is rather irrelevant to the final outcome.

I think they are probably negligent. To what degree and how you go about proving responsibility is another matter.

Unfortunately unless you can prove this, then you can't say they are actively encouraging it regardless of intent. Plus there are lots of other factors at play which don't help and are almost certainly contributing which disguise this.

No 1 on that list being lack of public trust in government...

I would like to say that one day it will become accepted that the government are being fuckwits, but unfortunately thats not how things work. I personally think the evidence is there for that but I don't think playing the blame game really helps tbh. People just double down on tribal lines unfortunately.

Until whats happening in the north starts to happen in the south it won't get taken seriously, and I think we will be into next term and vaccine roll out when that happens so the government will dodge the political u-turn. The north will remain a politicial cassandra that has to be 'dealt with' by other methods for the foreseeable. I don't think that the Labour leadership in Westminister has enough about it to grasp the initative more pro-actively and are ultimately happy just to watch the government mess it up from the side lines.

Things may have panned out differently if the news about the vaccine hadn't come when it did and hadn't been as positive... (of course that could still go tits up in the implimentation stage but we will be into spring/summer by that point).

I agree that teachers are being thrown under the bus.

It's completely shocking. Are the Unions doing anything?

@CallmeAngelina

It has been argued on here that is is vital for the economy for the 8% of working adults with children of primary age to keep schools open. In doing so, they've put the hospitality/beauty/other industries at huge risk of going under. How do many parents repay that bonus? Hosting play-dates and sleepovers because schools are open so what does it matter? I would be REALLY pissed off if my business was going to the wall for this.

I overheard this conversation almost word for word the week before the schools went back from two women out with their pre-schoolers in an area with restrictions. Both had masks hanging around their ears despite the law. Their children were actively being an nuisance and getting under the feet of other people and were not even remotely being supervised.

I've heard parents at the school gates making similar comments. I've actively avoided the school drop and DH has done it, to avoid even the possibility of getting sucked into it.

Its definitely a sentiment in some circles.

Lots of people are doing the opposite, but yes its part of the problem of government mixed messaging. It doesn't 'make sense' to a lot of people.

In terms of cognitive dissonce, I think a lot of people just feel powerless and think 'what is the alternative?'. If they keep their kids off they risk losing their place (and friends) at school and/or being fined. I think there is a resignation to there not being an alternative rather than looking for one.

I've keep a close eye on numbers locally and the problem at the school. To date things haven't been a problem (and I have my suspicion thats due to a very early outbreak at the school). I think if I thought there were more that could be done or that there was a particular problem at the school, I would think differently...

Would it be okay if teachers were not paid if schools closed

If schools closed, teachers and staff could be furloughed, like just about everyone else. Why not?

But if that's what you want, you will need to accept that there will be no setting of work, no online live lessons, no recorded lessons and no marking, no in-school provision for key worker children, no in-school provision for vulnerable children, no running around with food vouchers, no calling children to check on them. So a complete shut down of education for ALL children. Personally, I would accept that, because financially I could manage (even without furlough), but I can't speak for my colleagues. This would be preferable to death, long-covid, constant sending people home and juggling lessons in school and online at the same time and managing the stress of some children which is getting worse.

More importantly - and I think this is key - it would be more acceptable than the exodus of school staff which was happening before covid and which is most certainly happening right now. Simply put, there are school staff who would rather risk unemployment, loss of their homes etc. than continue with this shit show. Sure, plenty of people will sign up for teacher training as a result of mass unemployment but then your schools will be staffed by inexperienced staff almost in full (and they're not that far off that now). How the next few months are handled - or mishandled - has massive implications for the immediate future of education in this country. That is something every parent should be concerned about.

Blended learning for secondary schools for the majority (not all) children would be an acceptable alternative. It would help keep the R rate down, keep school staff largely free of covid and provide a seamless education for all rather than this chippy, choppy situation we have now. But fuck me, no one is actually listening to those who work in schools let alone letting the actual data inform what should happen.

Thanks @noblegiraffe for pushing this. It needs to be heard and the government need to be held accountable for any deaths and longterm disability from the absence of health and safety measures in schools. When I first brought up the ONS data cover-up when it was published and got so much grief from posters telling me I was wrong I just gave up.
Thankyou for not giving up.

Just heard on radio usforthem are using deaf children for their own agenda - to insist nobody should wear masks in school

@Ninbuscl

Just heard on radio usforthem are using deaf children for their own agenda - to insist nobody should wear masks in school

This is about the only valid argument they have - that deaf children will struggle. But it is possible to put in adequate and proportional adjustments for these children. Which we do already btw One such adjustment would be the teacher does not wear a mask in those lessons. But the other students still need to do so.

At least one area shutting before Christmas has said it will add the time on elsewhere.

At least one area shutting before Christmas has said it will add the time on elsewhere.

Shutting the school before Christmas but adding the days on elsewhere? That won’t work.

@ItsGrimInHull "I wondered if you had an idea of how to word a letter to my MP?" Don't know where you are but Diana Johnson MP Hull North is quite often responsive on Twitter and has been on TV about this. Same with Emma Hardy MP Hull West, is a former teacher.

And at a time of critical need...just where is Gavin?

He's not interviewed on anything.

@RaeburnPlace

And at a time of critical need...just where is Gavin?

He's not interviewed on anything.

He's not allowed out in public because he's a bit shit.

Gav? See point 11!

@Xenia

They are very difficult issues. Someone saying above schools should be closed. Would it be okay if teachers were not paid if schools closed, and if it meant that parents could not work so taxes were not paid and hospitals had to close would that be okay too?

This is the problem - we are doing a balancing act at present. Closing schools may cause more deaths and damage than keeping them open.

Despite the fact that these threads are mostly about keeping schools open but safe (I can think of one or two posters who think they should be closed for a short circuit break or similar, and that’s a legitimate point of view), some people can’t help pretending that teachers on here want to close schools...and even if school buildings were closed to most pupils (note: not all), teaching and learning would happen remotely, so the idea that teachers wouldn’t be paid is just deliberate, disingenuous shit stirring to give the impression that if not physically in front of a class in a classroom, teachers are doing nothing. Happily most people on here can see through this transparent mischief making.

"so the idea that teachers wouldn’t be paid is just deliberate, disingenuous shit stirring to give the impression that if not physically in front of a class in a classroom, teachers are doing nothing."

Yes, and it's particularly galling when such posts are by people who safely work from home and don't even have children of school-age.

Xenia really doesn't like teachers...

But fuck me, no one is actually listening to those who work in schools let alone letting the actual data inform what should happen.

No they’re not. The incompetence / lying beggars belief. Meanwhile more teachers at my school have tested positive over the weekend.

I would be happy to be furloughed. And I know many of my colleagues agree as we have discussed it.

Would it be okay if teachers were not paid if schools closed

If schools close teachers will still be paid FYI @Xenia.

I would be more than happy to be furloughed (even if it was 50% ) and so would my DH. To be honest we would both be ok with a 6 month 'sabbatical'.

*unpaid sabbatical I hasten to add.

I would also be happy with unpaid sabbatical